Myths you've encountered about positive dog training

[Wicket]

What are some myths you've encountered about positive training? What's a good response to these myths?

[wvvdiup1]

I've heard that dogs get punished no matter what training method you use, including positive reinforcement training. Not true when you use positive reinforcement training because you're only rewarding responses or behaviors you want, and, if the dog doesn't give you the response or behavior you want, you reward it, because you're trying to extinguishing those responses or behaviors you don't want. When you think about it, you're making your dog use his/her brain to how to get something it wants, the treat or toy, and until it figures it out what you want, it doesn't get the treat. You're not starving the dog, you're motivating your dog!

[Nettle]

That it's bribery.

Bribery is given before the deed. Reward is given after the deed.

[Sarah83]

That the dog is only doing as it's told because it knows that you'll give it a treat. Once the dog knows the command there is no need to treat every time. Sometimes I give a treat, sometimes a game, sometimes just a "good boy" and an ear rub. I don't see any reason not to reward a dog for doing what you've asked.
That positively trained dogs don't respect their owners. I'm not sure what people mean by this to be honest but it's one I've heard a lot.
That positively trained dogs aren't as reliable as those trained with punishment. I've found Rupe is far more reliable than Shadow was, he's got reasons to follow commands even when he knows he's too far away for me to punish him. Shadow knew that when he was off leash I couldn't yank on his choke chain and if he was a certain distance away I couldn't grab him by the scruff of his neck.
That you have to carry food with you all the time. This can be true during some training I suppose.
That positively trained dogs get fat. Reduce the dogs meals, use part of their meals as training rewards. Use rewards other than food.

[Fundog]

That it's impractical and impossible to use on working gun dogs in the field.

That it won't work for teaching a dog NOT to do something-- like hunt species you don't want them hunting.

(Idiot rednecks, is what those people are!)

[Nettle]

That it won't work for teaching a dog NOT to do something-- like hunt species you don't want them hunting.

Erm - actually - it does have limitations - and that is one of them IMO.

[Fundog]

That is true, but what I meant to say is that it is NOT necessary to use a shock collar or other harsh punishment to teach the dogs to leave certain species alone. Afterall, we all use positive methods for teaching to leave cats and cows and other farm life alone-- or if the method does employ some negativity (like restraining the dog on the leash and saying "No" while walking the opposite direction), it is non-punitive. Or we can even teach a positive command, such as "stop," "drop," or "wait," which actually tells the dog to do something else instead, something for which he can be rewarded, rather than punished.

[Mattie]

Dogs will only work for treats, that depends on how you use the treats. Any trainer who only uses treats doesn't understand positive training nor do they understand what rewarding is about.

To many of us humans food is to comfort us, because it comforts us we expect it to comfort our dogs. With our children each time I go into the supermarket I see parents bribing their children to be good with the promise of sweets at the end, this attitude goes over to their dogs.

I love chocolate but I don't consider it as a reward, maybe because my parents didn't use food to keep us quite, if were weren't quite when told we knew about it but not in a nasty way, priviledges were taken away, I wouldn't be able to go horse riding next Saturday, if I missbehaved, if I behaved I went horse riding, a far better reward to me than any sweets or chocolate.

I do use treats with my dogs but not as often as most do, I do teach something I want with treats then quickly move on to other rewards. My dogs prefer to play ball in the garden.

You ask if a training class is positive training, "Yes, we use treats all the time", sorry that isn't positive training, treats should only be used part of the time.

[wvvdiup1]

It's only bribery if you show them (the dogs) the treat first. But if you get the response or behavior your want first then treat or toy, then it's a reward! It's like Pay Day!

[jacksdad]

it only works for tricks.

I got a dog reactive dog that says otherwise....

[emmabeth]

Some of the myths are more, 'half truths'.

Yes you cant directly teach a dog not to do one thing with a treat..... but you CAN teach him to do something that replaces the other thing, makes the other thing impossible to do...

Yep, you cannot stop a fearful dog aggressing at another dog at close quarters by waving roast chicken at it..... but you can counter condition the same dog in a lesser state of reactivity, from a distance and build up to close quarters gradually.

The one that cheeses me off the most is that positive training is only for tricks, and/or its only for 'easy' breeds, and therefore is no good for mastiffs/akitas/german shepherds/bull terriers etc... especially as some of these breeds are even MORE sensitive than the so called 'easy' dogs and even keener to learn once you find out how to switch them on - I have to say I find a staffy/pit type dogs keenness and eagerness to learn and work WITH me and get things right even purely for the sake of being right, far far easier to work with than a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, or a Lhasa Apso!

[thepennywhistle]

A German Shepherd is considered a difficult dog? I never knew that. All
of mine were soooo easy to train. Some behaviors, such as protectivess,
were a little more difficult to deal with, but I found them absolutely brilliant.
The one dog I failed miserably at training was a Jack Russell, but my
techniques were what worked with GSDs and were all wrong for a JRT.
Wish I could have a do-over with her knowing what I know now, but I still
cringe at the idea of having a JRT in the family again after that experience.
(She was rehomed with an experienced lover of JRTs.)

Isn't it interesting how things like rewards morph into something else depending
on the skill and opinions of whoever is using it? And isn't it interesting how
people mesh with some breeds and not others?

[wvvdiup1]

I thought German Shepherd were easy to train, too!

[Mattie]

GSDs are not difficult to train, in fact no dog is if you take into account the job they were bred to do. When trainers/behaviourists say things like this it just shows up their lack of knowledge. Any dog can be difficult to train if you don't teach them properly just as any child can be difficult.

[emmabeth]

Oh yes, no dog is hard to train when you know how that dog thinks, 'works' etc...

But you see the number of people with GSDs on heavy choke chains, insistant on using old fashioned and often very very heavy handed methods.. methinks its GSD PEOPLE that can be hard to train!