GRRRRR rant- stupid people

[itsbeth]

Ah, I see. Perhaps playing was the wrong word, but would dogs with herding instincts necessarily be aiming to prey upon the livestock? Not that that's what was happening here, but the whole 'snapping at the heels' bit made me think of herding dogs.

[Lauram]

You're right in the case of dog versus my horses, this time it was just a rude untrained dog in the hands of an irresponsible and ignorant owner who I would far rather blame for his dogs behaviour than the animal itself.

But dogs that are allowed to or learn to chase livestock are a total menace, it is extremnly difficult if not impossible to train them out of it once it has become habit. The 'herding' instinct will quickly become a hunting instinct and they can never be trusted no matter how much training they undergo. If they are not managed then then society is better without them. It is a sad that it is the dog is the one to pay the price for its owners stupidity but that is life.

[Nettle]

Herding instinct is chasing instinct with a built-in 'stop'. The dog herds the animals to the owner/shepherd/whatever for the owner to kill. The same way that gundogs have a built-in 'stop' because they find and flush whatever it is, then stop so that it can be shot, then start again and retrieve it, then stop when the retrieve is taken. Herding dogs chase and stop and chase and stop and - only continue to do it that way with training.

The chasing instinct is very strong in most dogs because it is part of the hunting instinct, and that is one which is hard-wired for survival. Therefore the 'stop' is easily over-ridden in uncontrolled circumstances. Once the 'stop' has been overridden, it is very very hard to put it back. Once a chasing dog has actually made contact with the prey animal, it is almost impossible to retrain reliably.

[Mattie]

That is true, I guess I was thinking more about dogs "worrying" livestock (which sounds like play, though of course the other animals don't see it that way) than actually attacking them. A dog that's hurting other animals would have to be dealt with.

I used to have a wonderful dog, in all respects but one she was the perfect dog but she could bring down a ewe without any problems. When dogs chase and attack sheep it isn't play, they are no longer that loving pet dog that loves cuddles but a wild dog looking for food that he has to kill to eat. Dogs are not playing when they worry sheep.

I was also a bit shocked at coming on Victoria's board and seeing mention of having a dog put to sleep after one incident to punish the owner. Can't we punish owners without sacrificing dogs?

One thing you will learn on here is were very honest in what we say, we don't tell people what they want to here, we say what we think. How do you know that this was the first time this dog had worried an animal? The owner and people living in that area are the only ones that will know that. An owner who doesn't take responsibility for his dog deserves to loose him, as the rescues are full of dogs and it is rare to find a space for a dog, I know, I am trying to find spaces for dogs to go into rescue after their time in the pound is up, sometimes dogs have to be pts because there is nowhere for them to go.

[marcb]

Get an air gun and shoot the owner lol!

[thepennywhistle]

I still vote for the paint ball gun. It's powered by a co2 cartridge and sends out a plastic shell
about the size of a large marble filled with paint in neon colors. It hits with enough force to
really sting but cause no harm, and the paint splotches are washable, but very bright. Seem
to upset owners, though. Especially that neon orange on the big black dog. I thought it looked
quite nice, myself. And if you happen to hit an owner, it will make owners leap and screech,
I promise you

Skye and the white collies

[Lauram]

I want a paintball gun

[Horace's Mum]

I'm sorry, but I could never hit a dog with a paintball. They hurt. They leave big bruises. And if you get hit in the wrong place they can cause severe damage, hence needing helmets when you go to paintball centres. Hit the owners by all means ( ) but I couldn't hurt a dog to teach the owner a lesson. I like the idea of the paint, or rather than reaction of the owner to a paint covered dog , but only if it can be dispensed to the dog in a painfree manner.

[thepennywhistle]

I'm sorry you feel I am being harsh or endangering these dogs, but I feel it is justified.
Under other circumstances I would never deliberately hurt a dog or any other animal,
but chasing my animals is not acceptable, and I will stop it when it happens.

The first dog I shot with a paintball was a big dog, and it was chasing a small crippled pony round
and round my small paddock on frozen ground. My pony was a new rescue, had recently undergone
surgery to try to correct her agony from neglected foundered hooves. She was 20 years old, 38" inches
at the shoulder, 2 inches larger than a miniature horse, and blind in one eye as well. The dog was
almost as big as she was, and she was terrified. I couldn't catch her, couldn't catch the dog. The
paint ball was the only thing that distracted him from his manic biting at her. Yes, the dog yelped,
but it broke his focus on bringing her down. Yes, he looked grand with his orange splotches. And yes,
my crippled pony had such damage from her frantic struggle to escape him that she had to be put down.
And his owners wouldn't even pay my vet bills for euthanasia for my poor Amanda. I don't regret using
a paint ball gun on that dog in the slightest.

I didn't use the paint ball gun on Max, my neighbor's GSD, and my 17.3 hand clyde cross damn near stomped
him to death, requiring major orthopedic surgery to get him on his feet again. A paint ball would have been
a lot less painful and damaging. No, I didn't pay his vet bills either, but then again, he never asked me to.

Yes, I will use paint balls on such dogs. I have zero tolerance for dogs going after my horses or cats or killing
my chickens. Yes, it's the owner's fault, but it's the dogs using the teeth, and I feel it's more humane than
shooting them with bullets or letting my horse witht the dinner plate-sized hooves smash them to bits. I cannot
come up with any other solutions that are effective.

Skye and the white collies.

[jacksdad]

I'm sorry, but I could never hit a dog with a paintball. They hurt. They leave big bruises. And if you get hit in the wrong place they can cause severe damage, hence needing helmets when you go to paintball centres. Hit the owners by all means ( ) but I couldn't hurt a dog to teach the owner a lesson. I like the idea of the paint, or rather than reaction of the owner to a paint covered dog , but only if it can be dispensed to the dog in a painfree manner.

you can dial down the amount of CO2 used to push the ball and reduce the chance of causing severe damage. though it would mean getting a bit closer to the attacking dog.

[Mattie]

Horses are livestock, you can get the owner ordered to keep their dogs under control, you can insist on the dog being pts if you want to, I am sorry your pony had to be put down but if owners went the legal way, usually dogs have worried before although there is always a first time, this dog may not have been in a position to attack your pony.

A goat was attacked by a GSD near were I used to live, I know the owner of the goat, I got Joe from her. The goat was so severly injured that he died from them. The police wanted this lady to ask for the dog to be pts because he was causing a lot of problems with other animal, mainly other dog, she refused. 3 months later this GSD attacked a lady walking past the dog's house and put her in hospital fighting for her life, thankfully she recovered. Even then the owners of this dog didn't want him pts but was ordered to by the court. If other owners had insisted on this dog being kept under control neither the goat or the lady would have suffered so much.

This dog had been beated with sticks, kicked etc to get him off other dogs, he just got worse and worse.

[dodge-white boxer]

I'm sorry, but I could never hit a dog with a paintball. They hurt.

I wouldn t by choice,but I rather somebody would use a paintball gun then a real one and the dog dying ,as Dodge did once chase sheep on the moors,but has never been let off the lead again after that-I literally nearl pooped myself(not really,but felt like it )

[itsbeth]

I actually like the idea of the paintball gun. It doesn't seem inhumane at all compared to shooting a dog or having an owned dog put to sleep (honestly, enough dogs are put to sleep in shelters through no fault of their own, I still think that should be an absolute last resort and not something done out of vengeance), as long as you aren't hitting the dog in the face/eyes. Not only is it a deterrent, but when the dog returns with a paint stain, the owners will know they've been into trouble. Hopefully one paintball is all it takes.

I'm sorry about your pony thepennywhistle.

[horsefreak88]

In my experience, things can go one of two ways when a dog is relentlessly chasing horses: either the dog gets hurt, or the horse does. I once knew a filly that had her ears chewed off by a pack of neighborhood dogs. I've also seen dogs stomped to death by the horse it was chasing. It's a terrible situation, but when it comes down to it sometimes there's just no choice in the matter. Having known many people who would shoot a dog (lawfully so) for chasing their livestock, I must admit that the idea of using a paintball gun is appealing to me. Where most of our horses are concerned, it would be more for the dog's protection than for the horse's.