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Paul Kassell
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Post by Paul Kassell » Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:11 pm

I just received a feed about some American football who is in trouble about a dog fight. Apparently a 1/4 back, name Mike Vick. Anyone know about this or want to debate the merits?

Calin
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Post by Calin » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:07 pm

I haven't heard about it. What happened?

Lis & Addy
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Post by Lis & Addy » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:37 pm

It's Michael Vick, quarterback for the Atlanta Falcons, and it is, sadly, not "a dog fight," but large-scale, organized, professional dogfighting that he's been involved in for at least six years. Here's one recent story, about his indictment:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2940065


He and some friends organized a kennel, the "Bad Newz Kennel," bought dogs, bred dogs, trained dogs for fighting, used them for dog fights, killed the ones that lost or that weren't aggressive enough to be turned into fighters. Now, the thing is, dogfighting is an awful activity, it's cruel, it's a felony--but even most professional dogfighters, when they kill the dogs that lose, they just shoot them--quick and clean. Not Vick and his buddies. They killed dogs by hanging, drowning, electrocution, slamming a dog's body to the ground. This is all according to the indictment, which is also available online in as a pdf document.

This case started with a search warrant in a drug investigation. They went to Vick's property to execute the warrant (regarding a relative, I believe, not him), and found the dogs and dogfighting equipment. And then a video turned up of Vick at a dogfight, which did some damage to the credibility of his denials of involvement.

Calin
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Post by Calin » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:50 pm

In a nutshell? The guy sounds like a sadistic b*st*rd.

Pardon my language.

(Mod Edit: asterixs in your rudey words. Kids read this forum too.)

Paul Kassell
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Post by Paul Kassell » Fri Jul 20, 2007 4:39 am

Thanks for the link, according to the article If convicted, Vick and the others could face up to six years in prison, $350,000 in fines and restitution.

Not a big enough fine, considering the amount of money he makes. Not nearly enough jail time to act as a deterrent. Call me cynical, but I bet he doesn't get jail time or anything like the maximum fine.

Please, please let the US of A make an example out of this moron, bang him up for a least a few years.

Lis & Addy
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Post by Lis & Addy » Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:40 am

Ordinarily, dogfighting would be a state crime. Because Vick took dogs across state lines for fighting, it's a federal crime, and in federal court his being a sports hero in Georgia and Virginia won't have as big an impact.

Plus, the federal law is new. (Dogfighting has been illegal in all fifty states for many years; it's just not the kind of thing that would normally be treated at the federal level. There's no federal jurisdiction if no state lines are crossed in the process and no federal property is involved. Just like murder is illegal everywhere, but most murders are state crimes, not federal crimes.) For the first major prosecution under a new law, they'll want not only a conviction but a real sentence. They wouldn't be going after Vick if they weren't certain they had the evidence to get that.

The jail time is the jail time, but the fines, even if he gets the maximum, are the least of what this is going to cost him financially. He won't be able to play this season (the NFL and the Falcons haven't admitted that, yet, but he won't be able to play), he's already lost one endorsement deal, and Nike is putting his shoe deal on hold. Public opprobium for bad behavior is a time-honored human tradition, and it's already coming into play in this case.

StaffieMad
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Post by StaffieMad » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:30 am

here is the petition for this case, stopping Micheal Vick from continuing to play in the NFL!

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeacti ... 0m=9448345
[img]http://saynotobsl.richardlindley.co.uk/files/BSL_Banner.jpg[/img]

lulu4422
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Post by lulu4422 » Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:10 pm

Thank you so much for posting that link! I've just signed it and encourage everyone else to sign it as well. You don't have to be from the US to sign it. In my opinion, this man ought to be placed in a ring with a pack of wolves. I'm not saying he should die, just mauled beyond recognition. :x

In addition, I think we should all boycott the NFL - not that I pay attention to it anyway, but for all of you that do, you should stop supporting it until they get rid of this worthless piece of garbage.

Victoria
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Post by Victoria » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:13 pm

Michael Vick needs to get the stiffest sentence possible and needs to go to prison for a long time for what he has done. It is despicable that this practice still exists for some sort of sadistic human gratification and I hope that he gets what he deserves. I'm an Atlanta Falcons fan but I hope he never plays for the team or any other again. I do hope the american justice system does its job and my only fear is that his lawyers will be very smart and get him a lesser sentence. I hope he never gets to play again. These players are heros to many people including children so what kind of example is he setting. We don't need people like him and he needs to be expelled from the NFL forever. And if I really wrote what I felt there would many bleeps in this message!

emmabeth
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Post by emmabeth » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:40 pm

I dont have much of a grasp of American Football.... but i can imagine the deal if a UK football (do I mean soccer?) 'superstar' was caught doing the same thing....

Disgusting .... there arent words to describe it really, for ANYONE to be involved in such a thing, but for someone who is a role model for others....

Must refrain from swearing, or I'll have to moderate myself (thankyou for NOT swearing Victoria, it would be very strange to moderate you on your own forum! :lol: ).

Em

Paul Kassell
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Post by Paul Kassell » Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:47 am

Lulu 4422 hi,

In my opinion this man ought to be placed in that steel cage they use for wrestling in the US, with all the dogs still alive they rescued. Tie his hands and legs together to give the dogs a chance. As to whether he should die or be savagely mauled, who would really care! I can not agree with you about the pack of wolves, it is statements like you made that give wolves a bad press. I have a very strong affinity to wolves.

Why should and it won’t happen anyway, boycott the NFL. They can’t all be morons and it obviously brings pleasure to a great many. Ban him by all means. If he is imprisoned he won’t play anyway.
:wink:

Lis & Addy
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Post by Lis & Addy » Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:30 am

Paul, "banning" Vick from the NFL has implications and consequences beyond simply preventing him from playing. He oculdn't have any other contact with the league, either, including stuff you'd think wouldn't be affected. It's a form of shunning. I'd use the would-have-been-in-the-Hall-of-Fame baseball player, Pete Rose, as an example, but that probably doesn't mean much to you, either. :lol:

It's well worth doing and not trivial, if the NFL can be pushed into doing it.

Maggie
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Post by Maggie » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:27 am

I have signed this on another forum i go. I was appalled about this and just hope he gets whats coming to him. Both him and the other so called sporting heroGerald McClellan. I just hope he ends up the same way as Gerald did.
Gerald McClellan ended up being mentally and physically disabled by his apponant in the boxing ring. But before he ended up this way, he too was convicted of offences to do with training and putting dogs in the ring for fighting. He made his dog "spar" and kill every day. He said he had to do this to keep his dog wanting the taste of blood. Apparantly this made the dog into the "proffesional" fighter he turned out to be. He would go to pet shops and rescues and get dogs just to put in the sparring pit for his dog to kill!
I hope the pair of them rott in hell for what they have done to theirs and others dogs.

Along with dogfighting I would love to see hogging made illegal. This still goes off in some states of the USA and I find this also just as disgusting!
Sorry rant over now!

Paul Kassell
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Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:54 am
Location: Spain

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Post by Paul Kassell » Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:39 am

Maggi hi,

What is the other forum. I like looking at new dog forums.This Gerald McClellan do you know if he was the fighter who lost to Nigel Benn? Or do you know of any links to stories on this, without me having to google it?

You feel free to rant my love, this is what freedom of speech and forums are supposed to be about. Quick question for emmabeth, am I allowed to imbed url's to my blogs in posts or is that not the correct etiquite?

Regards,

Paul.

lulu4422
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Location: Oklahoma

Post by lulu4422 » Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:44 pm

Hi Paul,

I can't tell if you're serious or joking about the wolves, but if you are seriously offended, I wanted you to know that I meant nothing negative about wolves. They just have really big teeth and seem like they could do a lot of damage. Wolves are great! :)

I didn't mean we should boycott the NFL forever, just until they stop supporting Vick.

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