Does anyone know where I can find information on the UK legislation regarding, "The Dangerous Dog Act" I would like to also have the same information for the European Union rulings. What I specifically want to read is say an online version of these documents.
I want to actively campaign for the good of all pet owners in Europe, so we can get some good pet ownership laws drafted. Rather than the silly kneejerk reactions proposed after the tragic death of Ellie Lawrenson.
For those interested, I have been working with dogs on and off for the last thirty years, all breeds but my personal favorite has always been the Siberian husky. A dam difficult dog to teach.
I currently teach at a school in San Pedro, my teacher and mentor can be found at, http://www.thedogman.net/ Maybe you have heard of him? I also write a column for a local magazine, you can access my page by going to http://www.thesentinella.net/junemagazine.html (Don't have or want my own web page, yet).
Here in Spain we have some of the most ludicrous regulations, they also vary greatly from village to village,from province to province.
This post is not intended for you to visit the above, although feel free. Iam solely looking for an exchange of information or dialogue
Kind regards,
Paul Kassell
Great shows Victoria, keep up the good work.
Legislation
Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost
Hiya
I am a representative of DeedNotBreed (www.deednotbreed.org.uk), we would be delighted if you would 'pitch in' with us and lend us your support.
The UK act you want is http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1991/Uk ... 5_en_1.htm
Thats the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, you also need to read the amendment, 1997....
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1997/1997053.htm
Hope this is what you are after, I shall go and ask the committee for the European Union stuff, if we have access to that im not actually sure.
Em
I am a representative of DeedNotBreed (www.deednotbreed.org.uk), we would be delighted if you would 'pitch in' with us and lend us your support.
The UK act you want is http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1991/Uk ... 5_en_1.htm
Thats the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, you also need to read the amendment, 1997....
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1997/1997053.htm
Hope this is what you are after, I shall go and ask the committee for the European Union stuff, if we have access to that im not actually sure.
Em
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Paul Kassell
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- Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:54 am
- Location: Spain
19 views
19 views and only 1 answer, thanks emma. Visited your site and filled in all.
Paul.
Paul.
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StaffieMad
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- Location: Cheshire, UK
- Contact:
I've been reading the Breed Not Deed campaign information and find that I'm left with some questions in my mind which I would be interested in getting some feedback on. Firstly I should say that I quite understand people's concerns about the proposal to ban of whole set of historic and popular dog breeds and I myself don't see this as a good solution to the problem of dog attacks.
Last year I took my cat to an Animal Hospital for an appointment. We were kept waiting a considerable length of time in the waiting room. Whilst we were there (my cat was, of course, safely in her plastic cat box), a man came in with his Rottweiler. To say that I was unimpressed by the man's ability to handle his dog is an understatement. The dog was not under control and I'm sure that everyone in the room was a bit nervous.
When I finally got to see the vet, I found out the reason that my appointment was delayed. The dog he had just seen had had its tail bitten off by his previous patient in the corridor of the Animal Hospital as they were swapping between appointments. The dog that attacked was also a Rottweiler (not the one in the waiting room). The vet had to perform emergency surgery on the injured dog to re-attach its tail. (At least it could be done straight away.)
People that own Rottweilers tell me what wonderful dogs they are and I'm sure that this is true. However I tell this story because it happened to me and the two incidents, the one I witnessed but which resulted in no harm and the one I heard about but which did result in harm, obviously became linked in my mind.
If the incompetent dog owner that I saw in the waiting room had had a Chihuahua it would have represented much less of a threat to me and the other people and animals in the waiting room. Maybe there's a case that everyone we wants to get a dog, train and pass a test in dog training prior to being allowed to do so. Maybe such a system could be first trialled on people we want to get one of those breeds of dogs which appear frequently in the statistics of dog attacks. Incidentally I notice that the dog attack statistics document dog on human attacks but I surely dog on dog attacks are also of concern. To reiterate, I've got no problem with Rottweilers as a breed but it concerns me that such a dog could be owned by someone who does not have or acquire the skills to train such a dog.
Last year I took my cat to an Animal Hospital for an appointment. We were kept waiting a considerable length of time in the waiting room. Whilst we were there (my cat was, of course, safely in her plastic cat box), a man came in with his Rottweiler. To say that I was unimpressed by the man's ability to handle his dog is an understatement. The dog was not under control and I'm sure that everyone in the room was a bit nervous.
When I finally got to see the vet, I found out the reason that my appointment was delayed. The dog he had just seen had had its tail bitten off by his previous patient in the corridor of the Animal Hospital as they were swapping between appointments. The dog that attacked was also a Rottweiler (not the one in the waiting room). The vet had to perform emergency surgery on the injured dog to re-attach its tail. (At least it could be done straight away.)
People that own Rottweilers tell me what wonderful dogs they are and I'm sure that this is true. However I tell this story because it happened to me and the two incidents, the one I witnessed but which resulted in no harm and the one I heard about but which did result in harm, obviously became linked in my mind.
If the incompetent dog owner that I saw in the waiting room had had a Chihuahua it would have represented much less of a threat to me and the other people and animals in the waiting room. Maybe there's a case that everyone we wants to get a dog, train and pass a test in dog training prior to being allowed to do so. Maybe such a system could be first trialled on people we want to get one of those breeds of dogs which appear frequently in the statistics of dog attacks. Incidentally I notice that the dog attack statistics document dog on human attacks but I surely dog on dog attacks are also of concern. To reiterate, I've got no problem with Rottweilers as a breed but it concerns me that such a dog could be owned by someone who does not have or acquire the skills to train such a dog.
Any dog really can do harm.... and the tale you tell about a rottie biting off another dogs tail whilst passing in a corridor... to me that says that the animal hospital were also negligent in allowing animals to pass like that. It is after all fairly common sense that a lot of animals will be distressed and act out of character or over the top in a vets. Put two animals together in a confined space and you have a recipe for trouble.
What Id like to know, is why you immediately make the link that a dog v dog incident is going to lead to a dog v human one? Dog on dog aggression really has no link to dog on person aggression, Ive known seriously dog aggressive dogs who are absolute delights around people of all ages.. And ive known dogs totally fantastic with other dogs but a real issue around people.
The two things are not the same, one will not necessarily lead to the other.
Would you be saying the same thing if it had been a dachshund biting off a yorkies tail?
We need to get rid of Breed Specific Legislation completely, and you cant do that if you say 'well you can all own a Yorkie but you cannot own a Rottie without passing this test'.
If we did that, then you would have people with a dog as big as a Rottie but not a Rottie, or a Rottie cross, claiming it wasnt one, to evade the test.
And what about the Yorkie people, I know a family on my street that are not fit to own a Yorkie. Their dog was horribly aggressive to everything in sight, cats, dogs, people, the works. He was called Tyson and they thought him terribly brave and funny. And he killed two cats.
One day Tyson did his usual trick, which was to leap out of his garden through the fencing, dash across the road biting at the heels of a chap walking his GSD. He then proceeded to jump up and hang off teh GSD's face.
This was the last time Tyson ever did that to anyone,and he was well known for it, this wasnt a one off event. That GSD reacted instinctively, grabbed his attacker and shook him hard just once.
Result, one dead Yorkie.
That Yorkies owners shouldnt own any dog, their Yorkie (and his subsequent replacement is going the same way I wonder why), could and would have bitten anything that moved including children. But under your idea of having bigger dogs licenced to approved owners ownly.... they can continue to own a dangerous dog?
Its got to be the same rule for all, you cant just say 'xyz breed' is only for 'xyz' owners, or even do it by height or weight, either ALL dogs are licenced to ALL owners, or not at all.
I would love it if all owners had to pass some form of test to own a dog, but im not convinced that it will ever happen purely due to the fact we cannot police the laws we already have, and we scrapped the uk dog licence many years ago because it was not cost effective and unpolicable.
Any form of BSL is going to lead to problems, if we really HAD managed to eradicate pitbull type dogs in the uk in the last 16 years, we would merely have moved onto another breed, maybe we would have 'pit jack russels' after all they are a tenacious little dog who never like to quit and do enjoy killing things. Its sadly all too easy to cause any dog to be dog aggressive.
Unfortunately, its the Rotties and Bullmastiffs and GSDs and Dobermans people remember and talk about when they see them kicking off on the street or in a vets office.
Ive seen plenty of other breeds behaving in exactly the same way, but that doesnt make good headlines!
What Id like to know, is why you immediately make the link that a dog v dog incident is going to lead to a dog v human one? Dog on dog aggression really has no link to dog on person aggression, Ive known seriously dog aggressive dogs who are absolute delights around people of all ages.. And ive known dogs totally fantastic with other dogs but a real issue around people.
The two things are not the same, one will not necessarily lead to the other.
Would you be saying the same thing if it had been a dachshund biting off a yorkies tail?
We need to get rid of Breed Specific Legislation completely, and you cant do that if you say 'well you can all own a Yorkie but you cannot own a Rottie without passing this test'.
If we did that, then you would have people with a dog as big as a Rottie but not a Rottie, or a Rottie cross, claiming it wasnt one, to evade the test.
And what about the Yorkie people, I know a family on my street that are not fit to own a Yorkie. Their dog was horribly aggressive to everything in sight, cats, dogs, people, the works. He was called Tyson and they thought him terribly brave and funny. And he killed two cats.
One day Tyson did his usual trick, which was to leap out of his garden through the fencing, dash across the road biting at the heels of a chap walking his GSD. He then proceeded to jump up and hang off teh GSD's face.
This was the last time Tyson ever did that to anyone,and he was well known for it, this wasnt a one off event. That GSD reacted instinctively, grabbed his attacker and shook him hard just once.
Result, one dead Yorkie.
That Yorkies owners shouldnt own any dog, their Yorkie (and his subsequent replacement is going the same way I wonder why), could and would have bitten anything that moved including children. But under your idea of having bigger dogs licenced to approved owners ownly.... they can continue to own a dangerous dog?
Its got to be the same rule for all, you cant just say 'xyz breed' is only for 'xyz' owners, or even do it by height or weight, either ALL dogs are licenced to ALL owners, or not at all.
I would love it if all owners had to pass some form of test to own a dog, but im not convinced that it will ever happen purely due to the fact we cannot police the laws we already have, and we scrapped the uk dog licence many years ago because it was not cost effective and unpolicable.
Any form of BSL is going to lead to problems, if we really HAD managed to eradicate pitbull type dogs in the uk in the last 16 years, we would merely have moved onto another breed, maybe we would have 'pit jack russels' after all they are a tenacious little dog who never like to quit and do enjoy killing things. Its sadly all too easy to cause any dog to be dog aggressive.
Unfortunately, its the Rotties and Bullmastiffs and GSDs and Dobermans people remember and talk about when they see them kicking off on the street or in a vets office.
Ive seen plenty of other breeds behaving in exactly the same way, but that doesnt make good headlines!
I agree with you on this point. It's a very stressful setting for the animals and their owners and more could be done to avoid such situations. Maybe the hospital should advise dog owners to use muzzles as well as have their dogs on a leash.emmabeth wrote:Any dog really can do harm.... and the tale you tell about a rottie biting off another dogs tail whilst passing in a corridor... to me that says that the animal hospital were also negligent in allowing animals to pass like that.
I didn't mean to make a connection between dog v dog attacks and dog v human attacks. I just wanted to make the point that unprovoked dog v dog attacks also matter a great deal to the human owners of injured dogs even though these attacks don't often make the papers.emmabeth wrote:What Id like to know, is why you immediately make the link that a dog v dog incident is going to lead to a dog v human one?
I'm just recounting the incident as it occurred. I don't have it in for any breed of dog. I realise that it was just a coincidence the fact that the two incidents involved the same breed of dog. Do you not think that the owner of a dachshund would have more chance of preventing their dog on a leash from attacking a yorkie (also on a leash) or at least pulling the dog away before it did any serious damage?emmabeth wrote:Would you be saying the same thing if it had been a dachshund biting off a yorkies tail?
I agree that any type or size of dog can potentially be dangerous. So maybe my idea should be for all. It's just that when you see someone with a dog that is stronger than they are but which is not properly in their control that the problem is more obvious. The situation that I witnessed in the waiting room was one of incompetence, not of someone actively encouraging their dog to be vicious. As I implied if the dog had been a small one then the possibility of the dog breaking free of its owner would not have seemed realistic.emmabeth wrote:We need to get rid of Breed Specific Legislation completely, and you cant do that if you say 'well you can all own a Yorkie but you cannot own a Rottie without passing this test'.
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katowaggytail
- Posts: 394
- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:37 am
I've just read both Acts, and looked up the 3 other breeds .
This afternoon I have been pondering... I read the link earlier on.. as to what can be done/ Paul's orginal question.
I thought of re-introducing the licence.. at slightly more than 37 1/2p! Respectable owners would buy one, but the not so respectable wouldn't.
Licensing breeders.. but look at what happened with all those Yorkies last year - her breeders cert was still valid, and then some breeders would go further under ground than they already are.
Insurence, forcing people to have it ... responsilbe owners would, less than responsilble, well- rather like some car drivers, wouldn't give a toss.
Compulsory training sessions?
These are all just pie in the sky ideas if we have no one to police them properly and that is the main sticking point.
Proper policing.....
This afternoon I have been pondering... I read the link earlier on.. as to what can be done/ Paul's orginal question.
I thought of re-introducing the licence.. at slightly more than 37 1/2p! Respectable owners would buy one, but the not so respectable wouldn't.
Licensing breeders.. but look at what happened with all those Yorkies last year - her breeders cert was still valid, and then some breeders would go further under ground than they already are.
Insurence, forcing people to have it ... responsilbe owners would, less than responsilble, well- rather like some car drivers, wouldn't give a toss.
Compulsory training sessions?
These are all just pie in the sky ideas if we have no one to police them properly and that is the main sticking point.
Proper policing.....
Yes Paul I have head of David the dogman and his site isn't up to date, he no longer administers the Dog's Today forum and hasn't done for some time, a lady does that now.
AmandaS, I agree there are many owners who can't control their dogs but they are not always big dogs, my experience is that there are more out of control small dogs than big ones. Owners find it too easy to control their dogs by picking them up instead of training them but more big dog owners train their dogs so that they can handle and control them. Unfortunately there are still some big dog owners that don't train there dogs.
Several years ago a Pomeranian killed a baby, Poms are very small dogs so even they have the power to kill humans.
Why should I have to muzzle my dogs when I go to the vets with them? My dogs don't do any harm, they may chase cats at home but don't in the vets, they are not allowed to. My vet is an animal hospital and cats and dogs have their own area, if a cat owner takes their cat into the dog's area, they can't get upset if dogs want to play with them. Dogs are not allowed to pass in the corridor either, for safey reasons.
All my dogs are rescues but my best behavied dog is my Staffy, she is obedient and good with other dogs and people. My Greyhound will go for any red dog or Yorkies, I have a JRT/Whippet that bit first and didn't bother to ask questions when I first got him. Another was bouncing off the walls when I got her, she is a Lab/Collie.
Unfortunately dogs are too easy to get, there is a big surplus of them and you can get them quite cheaply. If the Government controlled the breeding of dogs and also made the owners more responsible for their dogs being under control then dogs would have a much better life and we wouldn't have so many in the pounds that don't have a chance of finding a home.
AmandaS, I agree there are many owners who can't control their dogs but they are not always big dogs, my experience is that there are more out of control small dogs than big ones. Owners find it too easy to control their dogs by picking them up instead of training them but more big dog owners train their dogs so that they can handle and control them. Unfortunately there are still some big dog owners that don't train there dogs.
Several years ago a Pomeranian killed a baby, Poms are very small dogs so even they have the power to kill humans.
Why should I have to muzzle my dogs when I go to the vets with them? My dogs don't do any harm, they may chase cats at home but don't in the vets, they are not allowed to. My vet is an animal hospital and cats and dogs have their own area, if a cat owner takes their cat into the dog's area, they can't get upset if dogs want to play with them. Dogs are not allowed to pass in the corridor either, for safey reasons.
All my dogs are rescues but my best behavied dog is my Staffy, she is obedient and good with other dogs and people. My Greyhound will go for any red dog or Yorkies, I have a JRT/Whippet that bit first and didn't bother to ask questions when I first got him. Another was bouncing off the walls when I got her, she is a Lab/Collie.
Unfortunately dogs are too easy to get, there is a big surplus of them and you can get them quite cheaply. If the Government controlled the breeding of dogs and also made the owners more responsible for their dogs being under control then dogs would have a much better life and we wouldn't have so many in the pounds that don't have a chance of finding a home.
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Paul Kassell
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:54 am
- Location: Spain
Mattie hi
Unfortunately dogs are too easy to get, there is a big surplus of them and you can get them quite cheaply. If the Government controlled the breeding of dogs and also made the owners more responsible for their dogs being under control then dogs would have a much better life and we wouldn't have so many in the pounds that don't have a chance of finding a home.
Could not have put it better myself. As for David no longer being the administrator,that's the reason I don't use the Dogs Today forum anymore. It turned into a forum about swapping knitting paterns and recepies. He used to have a forum called k9, sadly that no longer exsists. I used to administer from time to time. Now that was a good forum, but not for the general public.
I left Dogs Today because of the really nasty personal insults that was often posted, at least now that has been stopped.Could not have put it better myself. As for David no longer being the administrator,that's the reason I don't use the Dogs Today forum anymore. It turned into a forum about swapping knitting paterns and recepies. He used to have a forum called k9, sadly that no longer exsists. I used to administer from time to time. Now that was a good forum, but not for the general public.
[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/PIXIE.jpg][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/th_PIXIE.jpg[/img][/url]
