This was very very interesting

[Roara]

I watched this and as a converted dog lover ( it's always been cats for me until we got Bryn) I found this most interesting.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... f_the_Dog/

Enjoy - but be warned,, unless you download it it will only last another 5 days!

[Noobs]

*sigh* It will only play in the UK.

[Roara]

That's a real shame because it really was very interesting - perhaps try youtube or can someone download it and send it to you???

[emmabeth]

Oh rubbish thats ... rubbish!

It was REALLY interesting and I intend to watch it again before it goes off iPlayer... there was a border collie who knew over 300 commands and though she had been taught them it was she who instigated that trainig process when her owners noticed she was picking up a lot of names for individual items. But what was truly amazing... was that she could be shown a identical but smaller (or was it larger?) toy.... and then go off to another room and pick out the matching one and bring it back AND.... not only that, but she could be shown a photograph of a toy she owned..... and shed go off and get the right one and bring it back.

Very very amazing, though on the other hand im glad they did explain on teh show that she is pretty unique amongst dogs.. not ALL dogs can do these things and it would be a serious error to assume they all can.

Really good program though, hope it makes it over to the US somehow!

[Dibbythedog]

I really enjoyed this programme. It's the best one I have seen about dogs and I didnt once shout rubbish at the screen
I felt sorry for the foxes though , kept in those tiny cages

Alison

[Horace's Mum]

Just to let you know, it is on iplayer until April, so plenty of time to watch it again!

And I do know a collie who learns the name of a new toy or person in seconds, it is his party trick, he is very similar to that dog on the show, I don't think it is that unique but probably has to be brought out of the dog by the right owner, especially if they are taught to use their brains from an early age. I would love to try it with Horus, because I think he is easily bright enough to recognise the pictures (he recognises pictures of people he knows, they each have their own bark and he gives that bark if he sees them on screen), but he would not retrieve because he has no interest in that, and it is not easy to give names to things because of the need to sign. I'm always trying to find other ways to test him though, that don't involve retrieving, because I would love to see how far he can go. Given the limitations of sign, he knows 40-50 very specific signs for tricks, as well as all our day to day communication signs and his agility and obedience signs. I do find it interesting that he is certainly capable of understanding context, one sign can mean 5-6 different things depending on the situation and he has no problem understanding that.

It would be interesting to do studies with different breed types to see what they can each offer - because they will all be different, driven by different things (just as Horus is not driven by toys).

I did find it fascinating that chimps don't understand pointing AT ALL - you would think they could follow the body language when it is that obvious! And I (along with many others) already use eye direction to communicate during agility, looking ahead to the next jump to communicate where we are going next to allow me to change direction whilst still sending my dog on.

Also really interesting that the foxes who were bred for friendliness were so friendly purely because of genes, DESPITE being kept in a tiny cage and not socialised at all. Just goes to show good breeding will out no matter what.

Fab program.

[Horace's Mum]

Here you go for the non-brits: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p ... orizon+dog

[Leigha]

Thank you so much for finding that! It was absolutely fascinating. Jason generally gets irritated with me if I'm sitting on the couch with the TV muted watching something on my computer, but he was standing behind me watching over my shoulder almost the whole time.

[wvvdiup1]

Thank you so much for posting this link to the rest of us who don't reside in the UK! The Border Collie, "Betsy", if I'm not mistaken, was featured in the National Geographic magazine. If I can find my issue, I can give you more information to check out this resource. I think it was an article in this magazine that was about canine intelligence.

[emmabeth]

Excellent, glad the non-UK folk can see this too now.

The pointing thing was really interesting and the eye direction/gaze thing... wow.. the whole program was ace and I am another who really didnt find anything to go 'argh nooo' at!

[Leigha]

Bruiser and I were out playing ball this morning and I'd thrown the ball before he'd actually looked at me, so he was looking at me expectantly but I had no ball to throw, so I pointed to where I'd thrown the ball and he looked and ran after it. He's done this forever, but after watching that video last night it was much more powerful to me. I couldn't help thinking "wow" and smiling to myself.

[Roara]

we did the whole bowl and treat thing and pointed and Bryn went to the right bowl every single time

[Nettle]

Thank you for that link


There were quite a few points where I felt conclusions were too narrow, or had gone in the wrong direction, and would I have loved to have said to the scientist - stop - what about this? (or even Oi! We are omnivores not carnivores: wolves/dogs can hunt day or night but prefer twilight or pre-dawn, while our eyes are attuned to daylight). I should for instance have liked to have known the coefficient of inbreeding with the foxes, as short curly tails and colour mutation always occurs whatever you are inbreeding (eg with ferrets). And certainly IME horses have every bit as much empathy with human moods, and will follow a pointer. I bet cattle and sheep would as well.


But it is very encouraging that some areas of science no longer treat dogs as mobile furniture. And that collie was impressive (would be a BC wouldn't it ).

[sez88]

I clicked on the link last night, not realising it would be a full length show (I was planning on going to bed) but I couldnt tear myself away. I stayed uo later than the OH which is unherad of in our house, it was so interesting, thanks for the link

[wvvdiup1]

I mentioned about "Betsy" the Border Collie dog was in the National Geographic magazine. I found it! (YAY!) It was in the March 2008 issue on page 51 under the title called "Minds of their Own" that starts on page 37. Just thought you might be interested.