prong collars

Mattie · Post by **Mattie** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:23 am

katowaggytail this and several other subjects will keep coming up because trainers still recommend them, especially one that is on the tv. Until these stop using them dogs will have to wear them.

ChillyAndClover,maybe if the owner of this dog had taught him to walk properly on a lead before running next to their bike, there wouldn't have been any need for a prong collar. I don't like halties either, I have a friend who knows a dog that broke his neck with one of these. You can put as many gadgets on a dog as you can find, they still won't teach a dog to walk next to you, only training can do that. No reason justifies putting one of these on a dog, training them is much kinder and helps bonding the owner and the dog.

katowaggytail · Post by **katowaggytail** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:51 am

I know, I know .........

ChillyAndClover · Post by **ChillyAndClover** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:57 pm

Mattie wrote:ChillyAndClover,maybe if the owner of this dog had taught him to walk properly on a lead before running next to their bike, there wouldn't have been any need for a prong collar. I don't like halties either, I have a friend who knows a dog that broke his neck with one of these. You can put as many gadgets on a dog as you can find, they still won't teach a dog to walk next to you, only training can do that. No reason justifies putting one of these on a dog, training them is much kinder and helps bonding the owner and the dog.

What you have said is absolutley true and I do agree with you. I don't like halties, either, but it was used for safety of the dog and owner, let's say the dog saw a squirrel and a car happened to be coming! The dog that it was used on happened to be a rescue dog who already had a bad habit of pulling on the leash. He was re- taught how to walk on the leash using clicker training.

Just so you know, it's extremely difficult to use treats while riding a bike with a leash in one hand. Trust me, I have attempted this. Also, you can't stop or turn around every time the dog pulls. If you find some way, let me know! =)

Mattie · Post by **Mattie** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:22 pm

ChillyAndClover wrote: Just so you know, it's extremely difficult to use treats while riding a bike with a leash in one hand. Trust me, I have attempted this. Also, you can't stop or turn around every time the dog pulls. If you find some way, let me know! =)

That is why I rarely use treats

Treats are good for luring but for anything else it is very rare I use them even for walking on a loose lead. If they are going to get a treat it is at the end of the training session.

Noobs · Post by **Noobs** » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:55 pm

ChillyandClover, I don't use a leash when running my dog with my bike, I have a hands-free attachment that has a short bungee-type cord on it to attach to my dog's harness. If he tries to go anywhere besides next to the bike, the bungee pulls him back toward me. Both my hands are on the handlebars and I don't have to mess with a leash.

The only time I use my leash on my bike is when my dog has run at least two miles already so we're in a cooling down period, and we're on a long stretch on the street with no traffic lights - he'll trot along, stopping to sniff every few feet, and look back at me any time I get too far behind.

I agree with Mattie, if the dog had been trained in loose leash walking before using the bike, there wouldn't have been a need to train with a prong in the meantime.

Also, your comment on the halti being for safety in case the dog spots a squirrel: if a dog spots a squirrel and lunges for it, the halti could snap his head back and do bad damage to his neck.

Mattie · Post by **Mattie** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:42 am

Noobs wrote:Also, your comment on the halti being for safety in case the dog spots a squirrel: if a dog spots a squirrel and lunges for it, the halti could snap his head back and do bad damage to his neck.

In a situation like this the halti can break a dog's neck.

ChillyAndClover · Post by **ChillyAndClover** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:59 am

Mattie wrote:
Noobs wrote:Also, your comment on the halti being for safety in case the dog spots a squirrel: if a dog spots a squirrel and lunges for it, the halti could snap his head back and do bad damage to his neck.

In a situation like this the halti can break a dog's neck.

So, Noobs and Mattie, not to get anyone fired up, but what would you recommend? Remember it's not my dog, it's just a dog that I walk/ train every day for a client. It's such a high energy dog and I doubt she's going to pay even more money for a bike attatchment, although I will mention it to her.

I also understand that a halti can break a dog's neck, that's why the dog has been taught to walk in a specific location next to the bike, so the leash is only giving him a foot or so.

Noobs · Post by **Noobs** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:52 am

If the dog can handle the bike without attachments then that's great! The one I got came from here, though, in case you're curious: http://walkydogusa.com/

As for what I'd recommend: I taught my dog with Mattie's loose leash walking method so he's very good on leash now. But he will still lunge after squirrels if he's close enough that he thinks he can get to it. So I use an easywalk harness, the kind that clips in front of his chest. So when he lunges he gets turned right around back to me, and I'm not worried about his neck. Here's where I got mine:

http://www.sitstay.com/dog/supplies/ser ... 3321_26912_

This particular one is reflective and more expensive but I'm linking it because it's a better picture of the harness:

http://www.sitstay.com/dog/supplies/ser ... 3321_26912_

By the way, you're not firing me up by asking that question. Most people wouldn't ask for the suggestion at all and just leave the board in a huff.

Ocelot0411 · Post by **Ocelot0411** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:16 am

Guys for give me if I am being dim, but all this talk about Haltis - I assume we are talking about the headcollars or the gentle leaders rather than the harnesses?

I was thinking of getting one of these for Max the dog I am going to foster and hopefully adopt, as he is a big dog and apparantly pulls like a train. Obviously this is only intended to be an interim measure until I train him to walk nicely on a loose lead, but that is not going to happen overnight. You have put me off these now though, so would you suggest a harness for now instead?

Noobs · Post by **Noobs** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:52 am

Yes, the halti is the head collar, gentle leader.

If I'm not mistaken, there's a way to use the halti in conjunction with a regular leash/collar - either with a leash that has clips on both ends for the halti and the collar, or two leashes - that is safer because you'd only be using the halti for non-emergency situations.

Since a combination of the loose leash walking training and the easywalk harness for any lunging has worked for me personally, that's what I would recommend.

Walking on loose leash won't happen overnight, but it's possible to do it in less than two weeks if you train 2-3 times a day for 20-30 minutes at a time. Isn't that about right, Mattie?

Ocelot0411 · Post by **Ocelot0411** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:25 am

Thanks for that. I already have a no pull harness so will just stick to that whilst I do the loose lead walk training.

I have used Matties technique on my other dog and it worked a charm - not sure we did it in two weeks though

Noobs · Post by **Noobs** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:10 am

Well, with my dog it took about 1 1/2 weeks to get him reliable on the street where my house is, so we walked back and forth on the same block for several days. Building him up to being reliable further and further away from my street took much longer.

Mattie · Post by **Mattie** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:11 am

First, riding a bike and having a dog on a lead is dangerous, when the dog tries to run the other way it can cause a nasty accident, may even be pulled under a vehicle. The attachement to the bike is much safer, it won't pull the hand off the handlebar but can still pull the bite over.

I have only seen 1 person use a halti properly, everyone else has the lead attached to the halti, the dog should have a lead attached to a harness or collar and this is what they should be walked on. Another lead attached to the halti is for when the dog plays up. This is much safer, especially with a harness and the body is under more control, than walking a dog just on the halti.

The dog shouldn't be with the bike until he is under control, ie walking on a loose lead, it is too dangerous for the owner and other people. As I have said higher up, the owner could be pulled under a vehicle, for the driver of the vehicle they couldn't do a thing to avoid it but will have to live with the seriously injured or killed person. This type of accident, when it can't be avoided can have a terrible effect on this person's life and may in this situation commit suicide because they can't live with it. It is easy to think we won't have an accident but they do happen.

It's such a high energy dog and I doubt she's going to pay even more money for a bike attatchment, although I will mention it to her.

A lot of dogs are high energy dogs but their owners learn to cope with this and train their dogs properly. Watching a Collie working sheep in the Welsh mountains is quite a site, those dogs have to be high energy. Giving a dog the right amount of exercise is important but it doesn't mean that the dog has to be run for an hour or more, brain exercise can do the job much easier and high energy dogs really need to be mentally stimulated as well as physically exercised.

As to not willing to pay for something for her and her dog's safety, I hope she does, if she doesn't she doesn't deserve a dog.

ChillyAndClover, I can understand that you don't have a choice as this isn't your dog, sometimes we have to make a choice, relax what we believe in or walk away, you chose to relax what you believe in. Whe we do this we have the chance to change things for the owner and dog, I hope you can.

ChillyAndClover · Post by **ChillyAndClover** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:59 pm

It's very interesting to me to hear other people's opinions. Thanks to Mattie and Noobs to your advice. I did purchase an Easy Walk harness today and I'm going to try it on him instead of the prong. Fingers crossed it's enough for him!

Leigha · Post by **Leigha** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:33 pm

I'll swear by the EasyWalk. Bruiser was a really bad leash walker, pulled, bit me, bit the leash, was horrible (this was with a traditional harness). At first he was worse on the EasyWalk and I thought I'd wasted my money, but then after a few days it was much better. He gets excited when I pull it out b/c he knows it means he's going somewhere. I could just walk him on his collar now since he's much better with it, but I don't want to risk him getting hurt or something, so I choose to keep using the EasyWalk.