Hi I have a pointer collie cross a rescue - dont know his background - had him for six months. He is possibly the most affectionate dog Ive ever known - the kind who sits in the evening with his head on my knee. he is obedient, plays nicely with other dogs and not at all nervous in the house or to be left alone. However he goes crazy if we have visitors into the home - it is worse with men but has generalised to women too (children have so far been a no-no for meeting). He will start off walking up to them wagging a little nervously and then start barking agressively and repeatedly (at which point I usually remove him to another room!). I understand it is a defense reaction from fear. He does settle down when I call him off but if the guest moves suddenly or stands up he will start again. He has never bitten but is starting to rush at peoples hands.
We had a behaviouralist who said he would never get better as it was due to lack of socialisation as a pup and to rehome him to someone with no friends! but I love this dog and really want to know if anyone has any experience with this sort of thing? He is a little nervous meeting people in the street but not as extreme. He doesnt like to be touched by anyone but us.
Can he be helped?
Is he past help?
Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost
Can I just say... this sounds just the same as my AB Ethel.
She is the exact same when we have anyone come to the house. She has been very well socialised and behaves totally different when we are out and about.. on the meet and greet.
Get her back home however.. and its a different story. Now I know that American Bulldogs, are very guarding, and will defend to the hilt, but it was getting so that I couldnt even have mym dad in the house... she is fine with kids, not so hot on woman, but a passion against men coming. Yet no man has ever raised a hand to her, as we have had her from 11 weeks old.
The way I went about it was to lock her out while the guests came in.. she could hear them come in, then we bought her in holding onto her collar. If she bahaved she stayed in the room, if not then back out again.
She soon learnt that if she was good girl, she could stay, if not then bye bye.. no tripe sticks, and no fuss.
This was especially bad for her, as my bullterrier who is very very friendly( sometimes a little too over friendly if you know what I mean) he used to be able to stay, and get treats, so I think she figured out what the problem was.
I do keep her a little bit of a tight reign when we have callers at the door.. you know gas, electric slaes etc, and she is a very good deterent for getting rid of people trying to sell me god, or gas.. so it has its uses.
Other than try what I did though... there is not much I can help you with.
Some dogs, in my opinion, will remain the same, no matter what you try, and will allwasy have a little tendancy to be how they are now... I know Ethel still is wary.. she can just be handled better.
Hope that helps.
Maggie Ethel the slobbery AB, and Derrick the very Windy Smelly Bullterrier
She is the exact same when we have anyone come to the house. She has been very well socialised and behaves totally different when we are out and about.. on the meet and greet.
Get her back home however.. and its a different story. Now I know that American Bulldogs, are very guarding, and will defend to the hilt, but it was getting so that I couldnt even have mym dad in the house... she is fine with kids, not so hot on woman, but a passion against men coming. Yet no man has ever raised a hand to her, as we have had her from 11 weeks old.
The way I went about it was to lock her out while the guests came in.. she could hear them come in, then we bought her in holding onto her collar. If she bahaved she stayed in the room, if not then back out again.
She soon learnt that if she was good girl, she could stay, if not then bye bye.. no tripe sticks, and no fuss.
This was especially bad for her, as my bullterrier who is very very friendly( sometimes a little too over friendly if you know what I mean) he used to be able to stay, and get treats, so I think she figured out what the problem was.
I do keep her a little bit of a tight reign when we have callers at the door.. you know gas, electric slaes etc, and she is a very good deterent for getting rid of people trying to sell me god, or gas.. so it has its uses.
Other than try what I did though... there is not much I can help you with.
Some dogs, in my opinion, will remain the same, no matter what you try, and will allwasy have a little tendancy to be how they are now... I know Ethel still is wary.. she can just be handled better.
Hope that helps.
Maggie Ethel the slobbery AB, and Derrick the very Windy Smelly Bullterrier
If possible have him behind a gate were he can see people but not interact with them, he needs to learn that people are not scary but are nice and friendly. When he is quite he may be taken into the room with them on a very short lead, never the collar, it is easier to slip out of a collar if you have your hand on it than if there is a lead clipped on. For some reason dogs are more relaxed if there is a lead on as well.
To start with I would put him behind the gate before the visitors stand up and as he gets better they could then stand up with him their, possibly throw a treat on the floor, not at him, as they stand up so he starts to see people as nice things happen.
This will be a long slow process and you will need the help of any visitor that comes but I can't see any reason why he doesn't improve provided you do it at his speed and if he does get upset put him behind the gate again.
That behaviourist is an idiot and doesn't know her job, you can always improve dogs even if you never cure them. The feeling you get for the slightest improvement has to be felt.
To start with I would put him behind the gate before the visitors stand up and as he gets better they could then stand up with him their, possibly throw a treat on the floor, not at him, as they stand up so he starts to see people as nice things happen.
This will be a long slow process and you will need the help of any visitor that comes but I can't see any reason why he doesn't improve provided you do it at his speed and if he does get upset put him behind the gate again.
That behaviourist is an idiot and doesn't know her job, you can always improve dogs even if you never cure them. The feeling you get for the slightest improvement has to be felt.
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I agree with Mattie...that behaviourist is a loser. To rehome to someone with no friends? WTH?
Management is important here as you don't want to give the dog the opportunity to practice the behaviour. I know a lot of dogs who used to be very difficult (and dangerous) with visitors and did improve with proper desensitization and behaviour modification..but it is important to realize that improvement does not necessarily mean the dog will become a "happy people greeter"..we all have our limits. lol.
Using the gate or a crate to help the dog maintain distance from what she fears is key. Encouraging your friends to not speak to, make eye contact or touch the dog while you are working on these issues will go a long way towards her learning they are not a threat to you or your home. Using very high value treats whenever people come (and only when people come) will help the dog learn that people visiting means good things and she will start to anticipate visitors with a different mental state.
I would look for another behaviourist, one that knows a lot about fear in dogs and with classical conditioning and operant conditioning knowledge and who only uses positive methods.
Having a fearful dog (with the potential for aggression) means a lot of work and a lot of setting the dog up to succeed...forcing her into interactions sets her up to fail.
There are a couple of good books out there (including Victoria's of course!):
Fraidy Dog by Ali Brown
The Cautious Canine by Patricia McConnell
Both highly recommended.
Management is important here as you don't want to give the dog the opportunity to practice the behaviour. I know a lot of dogs who used to be very difficult (and dangerous) with visitors and did improve with proper desensitization and behaviour modification..but it is important to realize that improvement does not necessarily mean the dog will become a "happy people greeter"..we all have our limits. lol.
Using the gate or a crate to help the dog maintain distance from what she fears is key. Encouraging your friends to not speak to, make eye contact or touch the dog while you are working on these issues will go a long way towards her learning they are not a threat to you or your home. Using very high value treats whenever people come (and only when people come) will help the dog learn that people visiting means good things and she will start to anticipate visitors with a different mental state.
I would look for another behaviourist, one that knows a lot about fear in dogs and with classical conditioning and operant conditioning knowledge and who only uses positive methods.
Having a fearful dog (with the potential for aggression) means a lot of work and a lot of setting the dog up to succeed...forcing her into interactions sets her up to fail.
There are a couple of good books out there (including Victoria's of course!):
Fraidy Dog by Ali Brown
The Cautious Canine by Patricia McConnell
Both highly recommended.
Maggi Burtt
Tailspin Petworx
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