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I'm having a debate as to when the right time is to get my 7 month old puppy Bruce neutered. My vet will neuter a dog from 6 months old and I have heard that this is quite common. I have heard from a number of sources, however, that this is too early and that it is better to allow the dog to grow a bit more first. These people, btw, are not necessarily in the whole"a neutered dog is a fat lazy dog" school - they just seem to think it is far better for the welfare and physical development of a puppy to neuter later.
Please, could anyone offer me any advice as to what their opinion is on this matter?
It comes down to personal choice really, but ask yourself, for what reason do YOU want to neuter your dog?
Does he have a retained testicle, is he clearly ready willing and able and has access to an entire and in season *****?
For those reasons, id have a pup neutered at 7 months.
For any other reasons, i wouldnt. I definately prefer, having experience of a great deal of dogs, neutering after maturity.
Neuter early and you risk your pup not maturing properly - i have a dog like this and he struggles as he doesnt have the 'authority' an adult dog would have in dealing with other dogs and puppies. He cant tell them off properly if he doesnt like something, he still thinks he has the 'puppy licence' to behave as a pup would with strange adult dogs, and is frequently surprised when he gets told off!
Neuter without realising the possible side effects....
Neutering can cause a previously happy confident dog to suffer a sudden drop in confidence stemming from the lack of hormones previously being produced. Result, one suddenly nervous dog, and if you dont know thats happened and something frightening happens on a walk or wherever you can suddenly end up with a fearful dog, and fear can turn into aggression quite quickly.
I also own one of these and he is the dog who sparked my interest in dog behaviour. Hes a coward and a bully, when he meets a strange dog his fear tells him to get in there first and force the other dog to submit.
Its taken me nearly 6 years to sort this problem out, and thats predominantly because 6 years ago, i believed what i was told, that neutering has no bad side effects.
Neuter to prevent behavioural problems: 9 times out of 10, a problem people sya will be cured by neutering, WONT be. Id say the exception to those rules are extremely over confident dogs who have been used at stud, although left too long and their behaviour will become learned rather than hormonally driven.
Neutering will NOT cure dogs who run off, it will NOT prevent humping, it will NOT even prevent a dog mating and tying with a *****. If any of these are the problem, look to training and behavioural solutions first, you can always try new training methods, you CANNOT stick a pair of testicles back on!
IF you just want to neuter because long term you dont want to own an entire dog because of the risk he may father puppies, then wait till he is mature and train him well. If there is some reason out of your control that you cannot prevent his access to an in season *****, then yes, id neuter in that circumstance.
My youngest dog is entire, I never have any intentions of breeding from him, and when he finally matures and settles down, he will be neutered. But right now, hes a nervous, silly totally immature rising 2 year old, he doesnt have a CLUE what his 'bits' are for, he doesnt even scent mark yet, he still wees like a girl, so theres no reason to neuter him.
I am not anti neutering, but i AM seriously anti 'neutering cures all' as it simply doesn't and if you go into something NOT being aware of the pros and cons, you may make a mistake like i did that takes YEARS to sort out.
Thanks - that has not confused me, simply made things a lot clearer in my head. It sounds to me like Bruce is very similar to the dog you mentioned - he is a bouncy fun loving puppy who wants to be everybodies friend and sometimes lacks in dog etiquette when meeting them. He is very confident although, from what you have described, i can see how this could reverse if his hormone levels were to change quickly. He is reasonably well behaved and extremely quick to learn and so therefore, like you say, it is by no means for the point of fixing behavioural issues - and like you said this is not likely to help anyway!
He does hump a lot - but for some reason he picks males over females (hmmm! ) - and any females that he does encounter on a regular basis are neutered.
I will definately take your advice on board. The only real reason i want to have him neutered eventually is because i don't want to breed from him and in the long term, I would rather not have to worry every time he meets a *****.
From the information you have given me, i will wait until he seems ready in himself - let him mature and get to grips with social behaviour and finding his feet in life.
emmabeth wrote:It comes down to personal choice really, but ask For I definately prefer, having experience of a great deal of dogs, neutering after maturity.
Neutering can cause a previously happy confident dog to suffer a sudden drop in confidence stemming from the lack of hormones previously being produced. Result, one suddenly nervous dog, and if you dont know thats happened and something frightening happens on a walk or wherever you can suddenly end up with a fearful dog, and fear can turn into aggression quite quickly.
Em
So how would you define "maturity"? It seems a very vague concept.
The problem with attributing the sort of personality change you describe to neutering is that neutering is often carried out at about 6 -9 months - slap bang in the middle of a fear period where dogs can easily become fearful of things that they previously accepted whether they are neutered or not.
How do you know whether it was the neutering that caused it?
For example, Cedar was neutered at 6 months. Before that and up to the age of about 15 months (IIRC) he was an easy going dog that got on well with other dogs and was not in the slightest bit "dominant".
But then he was severly bullied by an aggressive GSD twice his size and scared out of his wits. All the calming signals and submissive postures he gave did not deflect the aggressor and he still bears the mental scars.
He would never have been the sort of dog to be able to deal confidently with an attack like that.
Do I blame having him neutered at 6 months for the fact that he is now fear aggressive towards strange big dogs? No. I'm sure it would have happened anyway.
I can't honestly say that any of my dogs has shown increased nervousness after neutering. (Can't speak for Eddie as he came already "done".) Ross was a nervous wreck when I got him and still is in some respects. He suffered mental trauma at about 8 months old and the damage was done then, not by neutering.
I'm not denying that what you claim can happen, but I don't think it should be overstated. It is a possiblity, not a likelihood, in my experience.
I cant state its definate, but I do want people to be aware of it.
My previously happy bouncey dog was done at 18 months, NOT in any fear period i know of.
Overnight, he went from happy boy to cowardly bully.
I still recommend having a dog done when its mature, and its not at 6 months, no dog is, well no dog ive ever met is.
WHEN you have your dog neutered, then just bear in mind what may happen and be prepared to combat it - if the dog shows signs of being nervous or fear aggressive you can take immediate steps to remedy this.
If you are completely unaware that this is possible, and worse if like me you have absolutely NO idea what fear aggression even IS when that happens..... you have no chance of stopping the situation from getting worse.
It isnt easy to define when a particular dog becomes mature, and thats wehre you need to know your dog and watch how he grows up and how his behaviour changes.
Pteppic isnt mature at nearly 2 years old. Whilst hes a medium sized dog and id have expected due to size, him to be mature at around 2, hes also a GSD cross, and as such i dont expect maturity till 3 or older! but despite what i may predict due to breeding, size etc, i just have to watch him. Currently he still behaves almost exactly as he did aged 6 months. So I feel confident that hes not yet mature.
As I said before, Im not anti neutering at all, im pro neutering when its right for the dog and when the owner understands the pros and cons of the situation.
Everything I have ever read and heard on the subject of neutering, has just gone to prove that there is no easy answer. Leaving aside the possibly even more complex issue of neutering a *****, I still can't make up my mind what is best for a male dog!
I left my first cocker dog entire because I saw no real reason to neuter him. He had no access to bitches in season, and had no behavioural issues. However, later in life, he developed a condition, which I was told was hormome-related, and to prevent a number of future operations, I agreed to have him neutered. He was very down and lethargic for a number of days afterwards, and I felt guilty. Long-term, there was no change to his temperament, but his coat became a little wooly. As to immaturity, he was puppyish all his life! But then, perhaps that's just cockers!
I had my present cocker dog done at 7 months, as he DID have contact with bitches in season. He left the vet as if nothing at all had happened. He is a little puppyish in his behaviour, but gets on well with other dogs and knows how to approach strange dogs. Again, only issue is will a slightly wooly coat - though he had a tendancy towards this before. He has gone on to learn to pee like an adult male, and certainly knows how to "hump", though does it rarely!
What conclusion should I draw from my own experience? I still don't know the answer!
"No matter how little money, and how few possessions you own, having a dog makes you rich." (Louis Sabin)
LBF
) - and any females that he does encounter on a regular basis are neutered.
