MAN aggresive plus seperation anxiety!!
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MarianneOrtiz
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:05 pm
- Location: Oregon
MAN aggresive plus seperation anxiety!!
I need help! My 1 year old pup is aggresive towards men! She is great with my husband, brother, and best friend, but any other men she wants to tear them to shreds. I don't understand this insecure behavior? She is in a training class right now, and proved that she could bite. A man tried to reach out and pet her and she growled and barked like she was going to eat him! She is excercised daily. With the anxiety, if we leave the house she tears her bed to pieces, she has chewed up my coffee table, and many other things. I will try anything at this point, she is one of the best dogs I have had (minus her imperfections) <smile> Thank you anyone for your help!
Marianne
Ok so shes not actually 'man aggressive'.... shes 'strange man aggressive'.... and breaking that down further, aggression occurs for a reason and that reason is fear.
So shes scared of strange men, and if they get too close or she thinks they are going to get too close... she warns them in the only way she knows how, to growl and bark.
Men can be scary to dogs, they are taller and generally bigger, deeper voiced and can stand and move in a way dogs perceive as threatening or challenging.
She sounds generally not very confident and quite anxious about life, so you need to build that confidence up.
For a start, read the clicker training thread and start teaching her that, it improves confidence (dogs figure things out for themselves and are very clear on exactly WHAT they are being rewarded for).
For now, stop strange men from going anywhere near her - even if htat means stepping between her and them and being pretty assertive and saying No! Do not appraoch my dog.
You'll get some poeple (i was going to use a ruder word there) who will insist all dogs like them and will try to force their affections upon her to prove to her that THEY are nice.... you must not let this happen because the more she feels that shes got to make these people back off... the more shes going to learn that they ARE scary and that her behaviour is necessary.
Increase her trust in you and in herself first before you attempt to teach her that men are ok.
Theres a fair few threads at the moment discussing seperation anxiety so the best thing is if you read through some of them and have a go with this clicker training and stopping men scaring her for now, and then come and post any questions you have back on this thread (keeps all your questions in the one place then so its easier to address them).
Hope that helps,
Em
So shes scared of strange men, and if they get too close or she thinks they are going to get too close... she warns them in the only way she knows how, to growl and bark.
Men can be scary to dogs, they are taller and generally bigger, deeper voiced and can stand and move in a way dogs perceive as threatening or challenging.
She sounds generally not very confident and quite anxious about life, so you need to build that confidence up.
For a start, read the clicker training thread and start teaching her that, it improves confidence (dogs figure things out for themselves and are very clear on exactly WHAT they are being rewarded for).
For now, stop strange men from going anywhere near her - even if htat means stepping between her and them and being pretty assertive and saying No! Do not appraoch my dog.
You'll get some poeple (i was going to use a ruder word there) who will insist all dogs like them and will try to force their affections upon her to prove to her that THEY are nice.... you must not let this happen because the more she feels that shes got to make these people back off... the more shes going to learn that they ARE scary and that her behaviour is necessary.
Increase her trust in you and in herself first before you attempt to teach her that men are ok.
Theres a fair few threads at the moment discussing seperation anxiety so the best thing is if you read through some of them and have a go with this clicker training and stopping men scaring her for now, and then come and post any questions you have back on this thread (keeps all your questions in the one place then so its easier to address them).
Hope that helps,
Em
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MarianneOrtiz
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:05 pm
- Location: Oregon
Thank you Em..that does make a lot of sense. I know she is insecure, just dont know why. Just today on our walk there was a guy coming around the corner, he startled her and she wanted to go after him. I just gave her a gentle tug and said 'good girl' We do the clicker training, and she loves it. We have been able to use it less and less over the past month with her and our other dog. The trainer at the store told me that I need to get her around as many strangers/men as possible from here on out to break her fear? BUT my fear is she will get stressed out enough to bite... so I will definitely take your advice because I agree more with you 
Thank you so much for your input. I really want to give her a better quality of life and not have her live in fear, or be so insecure. Any other advice is always welcomed.
Thank you so much for your input. I really want to give her a better quality of life and not have her live in fear, or be so insecure. Any other advice is always welcomed.Marianne
Yep definately dont try to 'break' her fear - theres a much bigger chance that she will learn shes right to be fearful and shes right to actually BITE to protect herself... than she has of learning her fears are unfounded.
I think its time for....... the spider phobia analogy..
Sometimes we find things scary just because we do - and it might be that she finds men scary just because she does.
A human example is a fear of spiders - most people who are badly frightened of spiders have never been injured by one. In fact many people who are terrified of spiders live in teh UK, where its very very difficult to get bitten by one and we do not have any native spiders that can kill you (unless you are allergic to them).
So.. imagine you are frightened of spiders. Would your fear decrease if someone, without explaining to you what they were doing, shoved you in a room full of spiders.
What if they kept making you approach and TOUCH spiders....
Would your fear get less, or more... and what would happen to your relationship with the person who did that.. would you actively want to spend time with them, or would you try to avoid them?
Even if that person succeeded in making you touch a spider and the spider didnt do anything horrid to you - your stress levels would be sky high and the experience would be deeply unpleasant, so you would remember that.... and the fact that the spider didnt actually hurt you would remain irrelevant (as i said before most peoples fear of spiders is not based on experience of them being hurt by spiders, most arachnophobes are aware htat spiders are very unlikely to harm them!).
Now imagine that if that person gave you $200 every time you saw a spider and said 'hey theres a spider'... what if sometime they give you $200.. sometimes they give you $500, sometimes they give you $1000 for seeing a spider and going 'ooh look a spider'.
I bet.. youd not only start to look for spiders knowing that they mean good things... but youd start to want to spend lots of time with that person, and make sure they knew youd seen a spider and were expecting your money..
That latter is what happens to the dog who is trained using positive reward, spiders = money.... man = treats in your dogs case.
Now you have to set her up to succeed, in the spider analogy its not the end of the world if the human gets too close and smashes the spider to pulp with a book.... if the dog gets too close to the man and the man gets bitten thats a big deal..
So keep your dog far enough away from the people she may find scary so taht she sees them (like the human going'hey a spider') but DOESNT react fearfully by growling or barking... work at that level for now, rewarding each time shes seen a man..
When shes looking at you each time she sees a man, with a 'hey look.... wheres my treat?' then its time to get a little closer.
Each time keep assessing her stress levels and if shes getting too worked up go back a little distance.
Dont be tempted into luring her too close to someone with food though, if done too fast too soon, you can accidentally encourage a dog to get out of his or her depth - then they focus on the treat, take the treat from the scary person.... and once the focus of the treat is gone (because they have eaten the treat), they suddenly realise they are too close and react fearfully!
Slow and steady and work at her pace, and dont let people force their attentions upon her.
As far as clicker training goes - its such good stuff for doggy brains once you have got one trick 'perfect' (in lots of locations)... go teach another. I would never stop clicker training any of my dogs regardless of their level of obedience... because it gets them thinking and its great mind exercise for them. It builds up confidence really well, and increases their bond with their owner, in a healthy way (say like the way you migt think of a really GREAT teacher)
I think its time for....... the spider phobia analogy..
Sometimes we find things scary just because we do - and it might be that she finds men scary just because she does.
A human example is a fear of spiders - most people who are badly frightened of spiders have never been injured by one. In fact many people who are terrified of spiders live in teh UK, where its very very difficult to get bitten by one and we do not have any native spiders that can kill you (unless you are allergic to them).
So.. imagine you are frightened of spiders. Would your fear decrease if someone, without explaining to you what they were doing, shoved you in a room full of spiders.
What if they kept making you approach and TOUCH spiders....
Would your fear get less, or more... and what would happen to your relationship with the person who did that.. would you actively want to spend time with them, or would you try to avoid them?
Even if that person succeeded in making you touch a spider and the spider didnt do anything horrid to you - your stress levels would be sky high and the experience would be deeply unpleasant, so you would remember that.... and the fact that the spider didnt actually hurt you would remain irrelevant (as i said before most peoples fear of spiders is not based on experience of them being hurt by spiders, most arachnophobes are aware htat spiders are very unlikely to harm them!).
Now imagine that if that person gave you $200 every time you saw a spider and said 'hey theres a spider'... what if sometime they give you $200.. sometimes they give you $500, sometimes they give you $1000 for seeing a spider and going 'ooh look a spider'.
I bet.. youd not only start to look for spiders knowing that they mean good things... but youd start to want to spend lots of time with that person, and make sure they knew youd seen a spider and were expecting your money..
That latter is what happens to the dog who is trained using positive reward, spiders = money.... man = treats in your dogs case.
Now you have to set her up to succeed, in the spider analogy its not the end of the world if the human gets too close and smashes the spider to pulp with a book.... if the dog gets too close to the man and the man gets bitten thats a big deal..
So keep your dog far enough away from the people she may find scary so taht she sees them (like the human going'hey a spider') but DOESNT react fearfully by growling or barking... work at that level for now, rewarding each time shes seen a man..
When shes looking at you each time she sees a man, with a 'hey look.... wheres my treat?' then its time to get a little closer.
Each time keep assessing her stress levels and if shes getting too worked up go back a little distance.
Dont be tempted into luring her too close to someone with food though, if done too fast too soon, you can accidentally encourage a dog to get out of his or her depth - then they focus on the treat, take the treat from the scary person.... and once the focus of the treat is gone (because they have eaten the treat), they suddenly realise they are too close and react fearfully!
Slow and steady and work at her pace, and dont let people force their attentions upon her.
As far as clicker training goes - its such good stuff for doggy brains once you have got one trick 'perfect' (in lots of locations)... go teach another. I would never stop clicker training any of my dogs regardless of their level of obedience... because it gets them thinking and its great mind exercise for them. It builds up confidence really well, and increases their bond with their owner, in a healthy way (say like the way you migt think of a really GREAT teacher)
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Fundog
- Posts: 3874
- Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:31 am
- Location: A little gambling town in the high desert
My dog can also be "strange man aggressive." But I have actually perpetuated her natural inclination for this, simply because being a night shift worker, I always walk her at night, in the dark. I am very cautious about strange men lurking around in the dark, approaching me uninvited. My dog takes her cues from me: If I am tense and apprehensive, she becomes more alert. If a strange man approaches me uninvited, she will warn him away. That's her job. If I meet a man I am willing to trust, however, I take precautions for his own safety by explaining that my dog is trained to protect me. I ask him to stop, and let us approach him. In a different setting, where I am not actually holding onto my dog's lead, I will stride confidently to the man, smile, use a super friendly tone, and take him by the hand or arm, inviting him into my pack. My dog sees these cues and behaves submissively. If we are walking in the park and happen to pass a man minding his own business (say a dad watching his children play), I take a cleansing breath, and make sure I am exuding calm, and be careful not to tense up. If I'm relaxed, my dog will be relaxed too. I continue to stride quickly and confidently, looking straight ahead, past the man. If my dog starts to hesitate even in the slightest, or show any inclination to growl at the man, I redirect her with a quick, gentle tug on the lead, and the command, "come, heel." This system has worked very well for me.
