Update on raw milk.

[master2]

Hi all

Yesterday saw my doctor for my blood test results that I had done on Monday. I am 100% lactose intolerant. I told her about raw milk as iv not had any problems and she said that raw milk is much healthier than what you would get at the supermarket as its not pumped with hormones or antibiotics and has a higher fat content and lower lactose content hence why you are not reacting to it. Plus it's more natural which is why many can drink raw and be fine.

In other news my brother has gone and gotten himself ill . he's Benn trying a vegetarian diet for the last 6 weeks and he has fallen really ill that I had to take him to the hospital and the doctor he saw has advised him to go back to eating meat. He feels much better. I asked why he was a vegetarian and he said because he felt it was murder eating another animal. I told him that if we were not meant to eat meat we would ALL go ill after eating weather cooked or raw and besides our ancestors ate meat. And I don't think a lion would think killing another animal is murder and either would a dog if in the wild. I know there wild animals but we are mammals too.

I should him this article and he feels a bit better now http://paleoleap.com/vegetarianism-bad-environment/

[Erica]

I mean, if anyone's eating badly it doesn't matter if you have meat in your diet or anything. If you pay a smidgen of attention to what you eat, it's really quite possible to have a healthy vegetarian or vegan diet.

Bit short on time but when I went vegan my chronic dermatographia uticaria straight up disappeared. I can wear standard bras again without my shoulders firing up, I don't wake up in the middle of the night from burning, square-foot-sized patches of hives all over my legs, I can take warm and hot showers again or stand in the sunlight without getting hives, and where holding a dog leash - simply holding it - used to cause my hands to swell up, I can now keep hold of a lunging 100 lb dog on a harness without my hands becoming unusable afterwards.

My seasonal allergies are also gone. I get a slightly snuffly nose for about three days, versus a few months straight of being unable to breathe through my nose, having bi-weekly strep tests because my throat was so painful, and constantly itching my nose/eyes/throat - and that was *with* various allergy meds. It wasn't a gradual tapering off - I went vegan over the winter (after an autumn of bad allergies), and that spring, my allergies were just gone.

I was also the last person in my house to catch the pneumonia that my sister brought home from college. It was a very rough time, and I couldn't walk far while I had it, but none of the rest of my family fared any better - my dad couldn't even walk from room to room while he had it. This isn't to say that being veg makes you a superhuman, but by the whole "vegetarian/vegan people aren't getting the right nutrients and are weaker than they should be" argument, I should have gotten sick quicker and been worse off than the meat-eating contingent in our family.

If you do it right there's nothing wrong with vegetarian or vegan lifestyles (for a vast, vast majority of people - a rare few do have disorders that make it difficult to be veggie). Your brother just didn't put the care into it that it required, or has some undiagnosed condition. I've found my health vastly improved from the change. It is a complex issue and there are a lot of factors, but saying point-blank that it's not healthy is a vastly misinformed opinion.

[master2]

Hi Erica

I don't think being vegetarian is bad or unhealthy. I just think that it should be a more informed decision like my brother quiet meat because he felt like a murderer but not for better health. I don't see as were murder's if we eat meat. If it helps someone with health problems than I think it is great for that person but I just feel that not everyone should stop eating meat because of some articles that say meat is bad. I think it should be a lifestyle change.

There are people who say meat is bad for all of us and meat eaters will die early but then you have people like in the link above who disagrees. I just feel I would rather ignore both and aslong as meat agrees with me I shall continue to eat it. And my brother was following an veggie meal plan but he fell ill and is better now for eating meat again. I think we have to listern to our bodies and that's the most important thing. Listening to people saying meat is the devil will not help.

[Theo400]

I was like Erica my legs and hands use to swell if I ate meat and one day I took it out of my diet after 4 weeks my swelling was gone and my skin improved I then added fish back to my diet I was still fine and I believed it was meat until one day a friend told me it might not have been the meat it could have been the antibiotics and hormones they pump in the animal which will then be in the meat I ate. I was really scared to add meat back to my diet after being a veggie for Tow years and then I slowly introduced Grass fed meat into my diet and I never sweled up and it turned out it was the supermarket meat that made me ill but meat from animals who grazed naturally and had not been given antibiotics or hormones was healthy for me to eat. I have a lot of respect for veggies and vegans.

I believe that it is always best to get grass fed but if you can't tolerate that then being a veggie is great too. There is no science evidence that meat causes problems although there should.

I don't think being either is bad.

[JudyN]

Plenty of top athletes are vegetarian. The article you linked to is just as biased as the ones that say that eating meat is unhealthy.

As for the ethics - sure, if you raise your own free-range animals for meat, and slaughter them yourself, it could be regarded as ethically sound. But even if you buy free range meat, the experiences of the animals when they go to slaughter are pretty awful. Ask yourself: if I told you I liked the taste of puppy, so bred my own puppies, raised them ethically, and then killed and ate them, how would you feel? Is that wrong, and if so why?

Even dairy - a friend of mine who lives in the country and her family were kept awake all night recently by the sounds of a cow calling for her calf which had just been removed from her. It's not nice.

Not trying to send anyone on a guilt trip - I'm only 99% vegetarian myself and I eat dairy - but there's plenty of reasons to respect those who believe that meat is murder whether you agree with them or not. And quite possibly, your brother would have fallen ill when he did, and got better when he did, regardless of what he ate - or there may be some specific ingredient in the veggie meal plan that didn't agree with him.

[master2]

Thanks for both of your replys.

Judy - when you put it like that yes I do feel bad but I just don't think I could live a Veggie lifestyle even if I wanted as I don't like beans, legumes , seeds or nuts ( except for cashew nuts) and I'm not a massive potato fan except sweet potato. So I don't even know what I would eat for protein ect.?

[Fudgeandcoco]

I eat meat grass fed only. I now this might sound awful but I have no problem knowing a cow was killed for me to eat beef I respect why veggies feel so strongly about it but I just enjoy eating meat and I don't eat loads anyway I eat more plant foods than I do meat. I don't think a lion would care about the Zebra it has hunted and if veggies feel it murder for us to eat meat then do they feel the same about a lion eating a zebra cos it's still murder as the lion just took the zebras life?

I think people can be allergic to meat like you can anything ,

[Lara575]

I am a Veggie but I eat fish otherwise I don't have as much engery. I don't eat meat purly because I love all animals and don't think an animal should loose its life for our pleasure. If the animal died first ( either from illness or natural death old age ect) then I might consider meat but all grass fed farms still kill for money which I will not support.

[JudyN]

I just don't think I could live a Veggie lifestyle even if I wanted as I don't like beans, legumes , seeds or nuts ( except for cashew nuts) and I'm not a massive potato fan except sweet potato.

No, that's fair enough - part of the reason I'm not vegan is that I don't like the dairy substitutes available, and am generally very fussy (Unlike you, I like potatoes but not sweet potatoes). I don't think anyone can claim to be 100% ethical - at least no one on the internet, as the money they spent on their PC could have gone to charity Everyone has to find the right balance for them.

[Erica]

The lion argument is tired and old. We should not allow wild animals to dictate our ethics - lions also don't feel bad about killing other males' cubs when they take over a pride. Lions don't have brains capable of having morals, so basing your actions off of theirs is...weird.

Defend your decisions if you want, but it might be good to find another way to defend them than "wild animals do it."

Like Judy said, it's impossible to be 100% ethical, but it's good (now speaking generally, not about this specific topic) to think about your actions every now and then and see if they stand up to criticism. It's hard to do, and it might hurt to admit you're wrong, but in the long run it makes you a better person.

[master2]

OK even though I can't be a Veggie my brother has seen the replys and wants to try again. What can he do to make sure he does a vegetarian lifestyle right. Or if you have any links on a typical meal plan for a week ect.

[Houndlover]

I don't mean to be rude but in my opinion I just find this post rather stupid as there are more important things to worry about in life than what we eat. I'm also not one for lables my friends always think I'm a Veggie just because I Dont eat meat most of the week but there wrong as I eat meat once a week so I'm not a Veggie but I don't like being called a primal or paleo eater either just because I don't eat grains or legumes. I eat what my body can digest and what my body agrees with as well as what I like as I don't like any type of bread , oats, beans , seeds ect.

The whole lion thing was weird were humans not lions plus we live in a modern civilised world not in the African wild.

We should live our lives the way we want and not worry what others think of us.

[Newsomefamily]

Well in my house we are all different. I'm Vegan I don't eat eggs, dairy or fish. My youngest Yasmin is vegetarian she eats the same as me except she still eats fish, eggs and dairy ( she's a cheese addict ) and the Elsa she is the only one who still eats meat but she follows a Mediterranean diet ( like what they eat in Spain as she loves Spain) she only eats red meat once a month like they do over there , she eats chicken once a week and the rest of the 6 days are either fish or meat free meals. So really Elsa does not eat loads of meat either. When we were in Spain it was shocking at how they don't eat a lot of meat compared to hotels in the UK every night in our hotel in Spain was either grilled fish ( it was a buffet) or a pasta or rice dish that was meat free. There was only once or twice a week when they served meat and it was pork , they never served beef or chicken. Even in the restaurants they don't seem to be massive chicken eaters.

I agree with Erica and Houndlover. You and your brother should eat what you are happy to eat.

[JudyN]

make sure he does a vegetarian lifestyle right. Or if you have any links on a typical meal plan for a week ect.

I wouldn't call it a lifestyle, any more than if someone doesn't like cheese, not eating it isn't a lifestyle. It's just a diet. There's loads of nutritional advice on the internet - just avoid cranky websites. As much as I believe in living 'naturally', I'm suspicious of any site with names like 'Natural living', particularly when they have adverts for all sorts of 'natural' supplements. I've just googled 'healthy vegetarian diet' and the first two hits are from the NHS: http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Vegetarianhe ... hhome.aspx and BBC: http://www.bbcgoodfood.com/howto/guide/ ... vegetarian They'd be a good place to start.

Some of my favourite meals are refried beans with guacamole, sour cream, grated cheese and all the typical Mexican trimmings in tortillas, veg and chick pea curry; bean chillis, lentil chilli... your digestion does adjust to all these legumes Then (looking at some recent meal plans) there's pizzas, good old beans on toast, veggie burgers (bought or home made), leek & goat cheese tart (basically just leeks & goats cheese on puff pastry - pine nuts sprinkled over could be a good addition), roast veg with crusty bread, various risottos/paellas/pilafs... the list is endless. Just avoid trying to compensate for the lack of meat by eating a ton of cheese.

As your brother did fall ill, he might want to change gradually rather than all at once. If he has red meat every day now he might want to reduce that to one red meat meal a week, then stick to just white meat, then phase that out. If he gets ill, he'll have to look at what it is he's introduced and question whether that might be the cause. I dare say lactose intolerance can run in families so that would be worth considering.

[Nettle]

It's a first world problem, isn't it? Those of us who are lucky enough to have plenty of food available can afford to have ethics about it.

Each to their own, but we should always be mannerly about it. If we eat a restrictive diet for any reason whatever, we should research it well and out of politeness, not be holy about it to others. Our choice, our ethics. What suits one body won't suit all.

Anyone tempted to cite the non-killing virtues of not eating meat should be aware of the huge amount of killing that goes on to protect vegetarian foodstuffs in field and in store.