And I believe most of America will agree.
Travis couldn't train himself out of a bag, he "stole" his training techniques from JD and Laurie. The only reason he won is because he was the only "average Joe" and the judges did not want to see professional dog people win(Laurie and JD)
I personally believe Victoria was threatened by JD and his ablities with Galaxy and his other dogs. JD's does not threaten his dogs. He trains with praise, and non food rewards. He is alpha, and with a pack(10) dogs you have to be. Guess you've never seen 10 dogs in a loose heel?
I'm so embarassed that I told my AKC club's, breed fanciers and friends to watch this show. I'm sure there was a lot of editing done but that still doesn't make up for not giving the true winner the award.
Kelley
Owner, breeder, handler of American Staffordshire Terriers & JD's sister!
JD and Galaxy should of Won!
Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost
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WoodyDascoundrel
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:17 am
I dont think it takes JD's sister to tell us that. I am a bit curious why they didnt have an americas choice poll like most reality shows seem to.
I actually had to turn this show off at times due to this womans arrogance and pompous attitude. I am also interested what expierence Ms. Stllwell has working with Hunting and working dogs. I thought it was laughable that Laurie had to use her hands to help guide and nudge her dog through most of the obstacles. Sorry but when my dogs 60 yards out working through a tangle of brambles or waist high grass I cant lean out with a piece of food to get her to do the job. I havent seen many of my Cowboy friends walking around with treats in thier pockets either as their dogs work dilligently to herd their animals.
I am sure Ms. Stilwell does just fine teaching dogs to behave in a house and and do tricks for food but I think Wendy had it pretty much right. Get over yourself Lady youre not the end all be all.
For the second year how about JD and Ms Stilwell square off training a dog. But instead of walking across paper with paint on their feet or taking photographs they could do some real obstacle courses, maybe some herding, tracking, gaurding you know some stuff dogs are really meant to do.
Anyway I appreciate Ms Stillwells oppurtunity to express some contrary opinions on her site.
I actually had to turn this show off at times due to this womans arrogance and pompous attitude. I am also interested what expierence Ms. Stllwell has working with Hunting and working dogs. I thought it was laughable that Laurie had to use her hands to help guide and nudge her dog through most of the obstacles. Sorry but when my dogs 60 yards out working through a tangle of brambles or waist high grass I cant lean out with a piece of food to get her to do the job. I havent seen many of my Cowboy friends walking around with treats in thier pockets either as their dogs work dilligently to herd their animals.
I am sure Ms. Stilwell does just fine teaching dogs to behave in a house and and do tricks for food but I think Wendy had it pretty much right. Get over yourself Lady youre not the end all be all.
For the second year how about JD and Ms Stilwell square off training a dog. But instead of walking across paper with paint on their feet or taking photographs they could do some real obstacle courses, maybe some herding, tracking, gaurding you know some stuff dogs are really meant to do.
Anyway I appreciate Ms Stillwells oppurtunity to express some contrary opinions on her site.
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bella'smom
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 12:32 pm
- Location: South Central PA, USA
Sorry but I disaagree! Not ALL dogs were meant to be "Working" dogs in the sense you're using it! IF you want to have a show that's completely based on what type of WORK they do, well to me that would be an altogether different show!
Andrew did a TERRIFIC job all along! He was totally responsive to what Laurie wanted him to do! True, he seemed hesitant on some of the equipment but then again he was absolutely THE BEST with the elephant everytime! To me that was AMAZING! Here's this little tiny dog and he's not afraid to go UNDER this hugh elephant! (The boxer obviously was!)
If you're looking for an obedient and loving dog companion dog then Andrew is The Greatest American Dog! You could tell how much he cared about Laurie and also how much she cared about him!
Oh and Victoria was THREATENED by JD & Galaxy? Give me a break! He is NO where close to the same league Victoria is in! JD's way of training dogs is ancient history!
Andrew did a TERRIFIC job all along! He was totally responsive to what Laurie wanted him to do! True, he seemed hesitant on some of the equipment but then again he was absolutely THE BEST with the elephant everytime! To me that was AMAZING! Here's this little tiny dog and he's not afraid to go UNDER this hugh elephant! (The boxer obviously was!)
If you're looking for an obedient and loving dog companion dog then Andrew is The Greatest American Dog! You could tell how much he cared about Laurie and also how much she cared about him!
Oh and Victoria was THREATENED by JD & Galaxy? Give me a break! He is NO where close to the same league Victoria is in! JD's way of training dogs is ancient history!
Touch a Bichon and you have touched a bit of Heaven! Hold a Bichon and you have held the World! Love a Bichon and you will love life forever!
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KLDDoglover
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:58 pm
I'm surprised there aren't more posts on this message board about last night's episode. I have never watched a show of Victoria's or read a book from her but after what I saw throughout this show, I doubt I ever will. I felt that there were no clear guidelines as to what the judges were looking for for the greatest american dogs. Each week it changed. The thing the bothered me most was the inconsistancies of the messages. One week Bill was told he pushed his dog too hard, the next week he didn't push star and he was expelled. Then last night they all agreed that the greatest american dog didn't have to be perfect... Then why expell anyone and just keep everyone there until the end and then make a decision? I liked Travis and Presley a lot but felt there were more appropriate dog/owner pairs that better suited this title. JD and Galaxy were one of my choices as was Bill and Star. I really liked all the dogs and had fun watching them so will not say anything bad about them.
I have to say, I felt Victoria was very unprofessional interacting with JD. Victoria was the judge and the onus is on her for exhibiting professional behavior. Her facial expressions whenever JD spoke were very rude as was her body position and not even acknowledging Galaxy with an applause at the end was very disrespectful.
Most of America watching this show do not know anything about show dogs. In my uneducated experience, it seems to me that JD is in a completely different line of business dealing with his dogs than Victoria so it would make sense that his training is different. It appears to me that JD's dogs are more stunt and trick dogs not agility and show dogs. His shows make many people happy; adults as well as children. But although I'm not experienced in dog training, I feel I can tell if a dog is abused or not since I've seen abused dogs. I do not believe JD is abusive (there was footage of Theresa abusing her dog and telling Leroy to shut up, yet she received praise) and feel that you can really tell that Galaxy loves JD and enjoys performing the shows and stunts in his shows along with the other K9Kings. I do not believe the issues Victoria had during the show had anything to do at all with JD's training methods. I believe it was a personality conflict. I can see how JD's attitude would bother some. I have a nephew that reminds me of him. But the judges should have been honest about it and say their problem is with him and his attitude and over confidence and would like to have seen more humility or whatever the issue was instead of making up things about him threatening his dog or over working Galaxy or Galaxy being robotic. I thought there were a lot of footage of Galaxy showing her sweet personality. Most of the competitions were based on the sit and stay command. Galaxy probably thought that was so boring since she runs and jumps so much in her shows. Her training is more physical than those challenges provided. Victoria, I really believe you owe JD an apology.
My last comment on the show is that I thought it was very dangerous to have these dogs running underneath the elephant. You can tell me until you are blue in the face that it was safe but the reality is there is no guarantee. Travis squeaking that toy could have startled the elephant and who knows... I realize the judges don't pick the challenges but if I were a judge, I'd have asked they to do something else.
I felt this was a good concept of a show but it sure was poorly executed and judged. If there is a second season, I really hope they rework it. It doesn't even make sense to compare trained dogs with untrained dogs. It should be one or the other.
Thank you for providing the forum for us to post our feelings. i would have emailed them to you in private but couldn't find a private email.
I have to say, I felt Victoria was very unprofessional interacting with JD. Victoria was the judge and the onus is on her for exhibiting professional behavior. Her facial expressions whenever JD spoke were very rude as was her body position and not even acknowledging Galaxy with an applause at the end was very disrespectful.
Most of America watching this show do not know anything about show dogs. In my uneducated experience, it seems to me that JD is in a completely different line of business dealing with his dogs than Victoria so it would make sense that his training is different. It appears to me that JD's dogs are more stunt and trick dogs not agility and show dogs. His shows make many people happy; adults as well as children. But although I'm not experienced in dog training, I feel I can tell if a dog is abused or not since I've seen abused dogs. I do not believe JD is abusive (there was footage of Theresa abusing her dog and telling Leroy to shut up, yet she received praise) and feel that you can really tell that Galaxy loves JD and enjoys performing the shows and stunts in his shows along with the other K9Kings. I do not believe the issues Victoria had during the show had anything to do at all with JD's training methods. I believe it was a personality conflict. I can see how JD's attitude would bother some. I have a nephew that reminds me of him. But the judges should have been honest about it and say their problem is with him and his attitude and over confidence and would like to have seen more humility or whatever the issue was instead of making up things about him threatening his dog or over working Galaxy or Galaxy being robotic. I thought there were a lot of footage of Galaxy showing her sweet personality. Most of the competitions were based on the sit and stay command. Galaxy probably thought that was so boring since she runs and jumps so much in her shows. Her training is more physical than those challenges provided. Victoria, I really believe you owe JD an apology.
My last comment on the show is that I thought it was very dangerous to have these dogs running underneath the elephant. You can tell me until you are blue in the face that it was safe but the reality is there is no guarantee. Travis squeaking that toy could have startled the elephant and who knows... I realize the judges don't pick the challenges but if I were a judge, I'd have asked they to do something else.
I felt this was a good concept of a show but it sure was poorly executed and judged. If there is a second season, I really hope they rework it. It doesn't even make sense to compare trained dogs with untrained dogs. It should be one or the other.
Thank you for providing the forum for us to post our feelings. i would have emailed them to you in private but couldn't find a private email.
WoodyDascoundrel wrote:maybe some herding, tracking, gaurding you know some stuff dogs are really meant to do.
Correction -- this is what SOME dogs are really meant to do. Other dogs are meant to service dogs or companions and they are real dogs too.
I don't want to get into another whole pro vs. con Victoria Stilwell vs. JD thing, but there are a lot of people who can train an intelligent and willing dog to perform tricks and stunts, but a lot fewer who can get to the real roots of a dog's behavioral problems and educate and motivate the owners to do the hard work of resolving them.
Re: JD and Galaxy should of Won!
There was definitely a clash of training styles between VS and JD. Galaxy came into the show very well trained. There was not a whole lot more training to be done. What was threatening was body language and postures JD used to "enforce" the stays. The alpha stuff is all apart of the get dominance style of training which VS is working hard against in promoting positive reinforcement based training.kelley ks asts wrote:And I believe most of America will agree.
JD's does not threaten his dogs. He trains with praise, and non food rewards. He is alpha, and with a pack(10) dogs you have to be. Guess you've never seen 10 dogs in a loose heel?
Kelley
Owner, breeder, handler of American Staffordshire Terriers & JD's sister!
Positive training also does not need to rely on food awards, play can be an excellent motivator.
Being arrogant with the judges (whether or not you lie or respect them) also does not help you win contests. If GAD was about the best trained dog then clearly galaxy was the champ at that (closely followed by Andrew). The show was clearly about the bond between dog and owner and achieving goals. JD's response about not learning much was a key factor in the judges decision.
Maybe we should have a poll, on who is absolutely fed up with people joining just to attack Victoria, that isn't what this forum is about, it is to help people who ask for help but they people are turning it into a slanging forum.
They are also showing up their lack of knowledge as well, genuine people who want to learn don't attack, they ask the reason why and try to discuss it in a manner that everyone can learn.
Nobody learns from personal attacks.
In other words, and I appolgise Victoria and Em before I say this, or do I.
CUT THE CRAP
They are also showing up their lack of knowledge as well, genuine people who want to learn don't attack, they ask the reason why and try to discuss it in a manner that everyone can learn.
Nobody learns from personal attacks.
In other words, and I appolgise Victoria and Em before I say this, or do I.
CUT THE CRAP
[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/PIXIE.jpg][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/th_PIXIE.jpg[/img][/url]
Re: JD and Galaxy should of Won!
There was definitely a clash of training styles between VS and JD. Galaxy came into the show very well trained. There was not a whole lot more training to be done. What was threatening was body language and postures JD used to "enforce" the stays. The alpha stuff is all apart of the get dominance style of training which VS is working hard against in promoting positive reinforcement based training.kelley ks asts wrote:And I believe most of America will agree.
JD's does not threaten his dogs. He trains with praise, and non food rewards. He is alpha, and with a pack(10) dogs you have to be. Guess you've never seen 10 dogs in a loose heel?
Kelley
Owner, breeder, handler of American Staffordshire Terriers & JD's sister!
Positive training also does not need to rely on food awards, play can be an excellent motivator.
Being arrogant with the judges (whether or not you lie or respect them) also does not help you win contests. If GAD was about the best trained dog then clearly galaxy was the champ at that (closely followed by Andrew). The show was clearly about the bond between dog and owner and achieving goals. JD's response about not learning much was a key factor in the judges decision.
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KLDDoglover
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:58 pm
I would completely understand Victoria having a problem with JD's personality. But that's not what was said. She was trying to ruin the credibility of his training and his relationship with Galaxy and that is unfair. In only one instance did it appear to me that JD had a threatening stance, but I don't believe the dog was feeling threatened because he was reinforcing her behavior by saying "good girl". I also felt like this was the first time he had to deal with so much distraction with Galaxy and it looked like he was just trying to make closer eye contact with her. I believe JD had good intentions and would never threaten his dog.
I would urge everyone posting here to do two things:
1. Act civilly. However perturbed you are by the results of GAD or something that happened on it, recognize that Victoria has created this forum in good faith in order to help spread her message of positive training, provide a homebase for her fans, and allow for healthy discussions of dog-related issues. Making baseless claims of 'jealousy' and the like is not a way to do this. Please shape up.
2. Read other information on this site (including these forums). Referencing Victoria's facial expressions during certain contestants' performances is irrelevant, since the entire show was edited. It is well-documented that Victoria's exchanges with JD and all of the other contestants were edited and cut down to serve 'higher' purpose. Taken in context, everything always makes more sense.
Thanks,
1. Act civilly. However perturbed you are by the results of GAD or something that happened on it, recognize that Victoria has created this forum in good faith in order to help spread her message of positive training, provide a homebase for her fans, and allow for healthy discussions of dog-related issues. Making baseless claims of 'jealousy' and the like is not a way to do this. Please shape up.
2. Read other information on this site (including these forums). Referencing Victoria's facial expressions during certain contestants' performances is irrelevant, since the entire show was edited. It is well-documented that Victoria's exchanges with JD and all of the other contestants were edited and cut down to serve 'higher' purpose. Taken in context, everything always makes more sense.
Thanks,
BoardHost
I liked Galaxy very much and even liked JD (or, at least, didn't dislike him). I wish, in his response to the judges in the final episode, he had talked about his commitment to rescues and the fact that Galaxy is an older dog and look at all the wonderful things she can do. What great motivation that could be to encourage more people to consider adoption in general and, even better, adopting an older dog.
Or maybe JD did talk about that but, like so many other things, it wound up on the cutting room floor.
Or maybe JD did talk about that but, like so many other things, it wound up on the cutting room floor.
I am astounded that people cannot, in the age of 'reality tv' we now live in, seem to grasp the concept of editing..
It is harsh but true, if this show had shown everyone 'feeling the love' and getting along nicely, everyone being totally awesome to one another at all times...
No one would have watched it!
TV programs are made to be watched, and the majority of the viewers want to watch potential conflict..
This is ESPECIALLY true of 'contest' shows where contestants are judged by a panel of judges - nothing gets ratings like an apparent conflict of opinions or personalities between judges! (Does no one watch Pop Idol/American Idol/X Factor?) and its not just the judges who are cleverly edited.... never once thought how lucky it is that the contestant with the saddest life story is the one who sings like an angel? Or the one who is super arrogant falls flat on his face..
The auditions for such things are rigged even, with the mediocre sent home and the spectacular, in either way... kept in...
Sadly, in this celebrity crazy media hungry age - conflict and drama makes tv, watching Mic Martin slam a cup of water into a dogs face or Victoria and Wendy have an angry exchange.. or Simon Cowell be rude to yet another person.... is more interesting to the majority than common sense and plain old kind, none controversial, not apparently dramatic, dog training (or line up of talented singers).
This IS the only vehicle for getting positive dog training into the public eye there is, the system has to be played and trainers like Victoria have got to take the risks inherent in being involved in a show where they have no control over the editing, or the message will take a lot longer to get out there.
Some of us take the time to learn, and see whats going on, and ask ourselves when we see something we think is 'off' or wrong.. 'why is that'.. and we find out more.
Thats why I know what goes on behind the scenes in such TV shows - I don't work in tv, I never have and have no desire to do so either.
Thats also the same way I approach dog training and behaviour - 'this isnt quite right... why is that.. how do i change that 'why' to alter the behaviour'.
It takes more thought than going 'this is what i see and take on face value and wish to eradicate it so *bash*'..
It also yields better, safer, longer lasting results - regardless of whether you are judging someone you see on tv... or a childs behaviour, ora dogs behaviour.
It is harsh but true, if this show had shown everyone 'feeling the love' and getting along nicely, everyone being totally awesome to one another at all times...
No one would have watched it!
TV programs are made to be watched, and the majority of the viewers want to watch potential conflict..
This is ESPECIALLY true of 'contest' shows where contestants are judged by a panel of judges - nothing gets ratings like an apparent conflict of opinions or personalities between judges! (Does no one watch Pop Idol/American Idol/X Factor?) and its not just the judges who are cleverly edited.... never once thought how lucky it is that the contestant with the saddest life story is the one who sings like an angel? Or the one who is super arrogant falls flat on his face..
The auditions for such things are rigged even, with the mediocre sent home and the spectacular, in either way... kept in...
Sadly, in this celebrity crazy media hungry age - conflict and drama makes tv, watching Mic Martin slam a cup of water into a dogs face or Victoria and Wendy have an angry exchange.. or Simon Cowell be rude to yet another person.... is more interesting to the majority than common sense and plain old kind, none controversial, not apparently dramatic, dog training (or line up of talented singers).
This IS the only vehicle for getting positive dog training into the public eye there is, the system has to be played and trainers like Victoria have got to take the risks inherent in being involved in a show where they have no control over the editing, or the message will take a lot longer to get out there.
Some of us take the time to learn, and see whats going on, and ask ourselves when we see something we think is 'off' or wrong.. 'why is that'.. and we find out more.
Thats why I know what goes on behind the scenes in such TV shows - I don't work in tv, I never have and have no desire to do so either.
Thats also the same way I approach dog training and behaviour - 'this isnt quite right... why is that.. how do i change that 'why' to alter the behaviour'.
It takes more thought than going 'this is what i see and take on face value and wish to eradicate it so *bash*'..
It also yields better, safer, longer lasting results - regardless of whether you are judging someone you see on tv... or a childs behaviour, ora dogs behaviour.
