HELP! New 14mth old farm collie bit my son

[aphrogoddess]

Hi i am looking for some feedback on what you would do in this situation. I took on a border collie (Max) 6 days ago, he is un-neutered and 14month old, apparently not made the grade for a working dog (I think he had very little if any, positive human interaction). When I first got him he was very very nervous, timid and scared of everything, as in people, cars, even my house as he had never been in a house before. After several days of giving him lots of love (which he had clearly never experienced before), he has started to come out of his shell a bit. I had to spend the first day literally tiptoeing about and walking slowly so not to startle him, if you walked past him with anything in your hand above his head height he wld cower, every little noise or movement terrified him, he just dives behind me when he is scared. Anyway he would avoid my 4 year old son most of the time and had just started to become a bit more interested in giving my son an occasional sniff, but yesterday he was stood next to my son and my son made a sudden move (not towards Max), Max I THINK got frightened and made a few biting gestures and snapping teeth together. I hoped this was a One off and something to be watched. Now today I gave my son a treat to give to the dog to try to relate my son to good things for the dog but.......later this evening he snapped again but this time catching my son on the forehead. Leaving not a cut but still a small red raised lump for a little while. My son did start to put his head near the dogs face which I know was the cause and was my fault for not stopping him in time but I just don't know what to do. Max has finally started to feel a bit more confident and has now visibly put every little ounce of trust he has in me and me alone, aswell as the fact that he is a perfect dog besides this problem. I have been training him because he was trained in no way whatsoever, he is making great progress and I can't send him back to where he came from, I just couldn't do that to him but don't think it fair to send him somewhere else just as he is getting settled and trusts me now....and I do think he is great too. At the same time, how can I risk keeping him and have him really bite my son bad next time......ANY SUGGESTIONS???

[Erica]

Definitely keep him separated from your son for a while. He is still in a very new, different, and scary (to him) environment; it will take him time to adjust, and young children can scare even even-tempered, well-socialized dogs. Baby gates are very useful for keeping kids and dogs separated, and having somewhere where your new dog can retreat and be left alone (eg crate or a room just for him) will also be good, if you can ensure your son and other members of the household do not try to interact with him.

Others will be along to add more information about going forward. For a while, though, giving him time to adjust and not pressuring him will be vital.

[Nettle]

It's my opinion that this dog is going to need a lot of time and work, and that it is unfair both to the dog and your son for you to try and do this without help. If you had a ton of experience in rehabbing dogs it would still be a tough call. My advice is to leave your feelings right out of it and return the dog. He cannot cope with the environment you offer. If you are determined to have a dog, get one that is happy - not just calm but happy - to interact with children. You owe that to your son.

If as I suspect you are going to keep the dog, then stop 'loving' him as he is not at the stage of managing it. Human 'love' is tough on dogs. That doesn't mean stop being nice to him: it means don't touch him unless you have to, don't hug him or coo at him - give him lots of space and let him decide when to approach you. Keep his world quiet, calm and secure, with a safe space where he can hide when it all gets too much for him. Above all, keep him separate from your child.

Innocently and with the best of intentions, you have set yourself up for failure. A well-adjusted border collie is still one of the hardest breeds to keep in a domestic environment because they need so much training and occupation. A dog that has had zero house experience and little human contact can take a couple of years to cope with being part of a family. That's with professional guidance. You have too much at stake to risk keeping him unless you have a big home, plenty of exercise opportunities, the time and energy to devote to him and someone to care for your son while you apply yourself to the dog.

You asked for advice, and this isn't the advice you want. You have some tough decisions to make. I wish you well with whatever you decide.

[Fundog]

So... in the event you do decide to stick it out with this dog, and try to rehab him yourself, the biggest part of management is going to be making the dog off limits to your son. He does not get to touch the dog or be close to the dog for now. Even later (much later, as it takes many months, even years for rescued dogs to settle in well and be totally comfortable in a new home), it will truly be several years yet before your son can be considered "safe" around the dog. In fact, Border Collies in general are not recommended for young children because of their tendencies to nip ankles when the "herd" the children.

To help make positive associations toward the child, just treat the dog whenever he sees the boy. Whenever the boy enters the room, when the boy walks across the room, etc. In time (how long depends on the dog's progress and comfort level), you can treat when the boy touches the dog, under your strictest supervision. Stay on here, have a look at the videos on reading dog body language. Learning to read dog body language is going to be a lifesaver for you and your child (quite literally!).

This will take time, and the boy will grow and also learn to read the dog and understand how to behave around him. Eventually he will not be a small wobbly pre-schooler (small children behave like prey to dogs, making them very tempting to chase and tackle), and will be growing into a sturdy well coordinated young human.

If it's any consolation, I too have rehabilitated an unbalanced dog. She is an English Setter, a totally different breed, known to be very soft and gentle. However, after seven years my husband and I are the only family members she truly trusts completely 100%. Our sons were teenagers when we got Dottie, and we had had a dog in the home for five years already, raised from a puppy, so they already had some dog experience. But.... even now, there are occasions when Dottie will snark at them when they approach her. For whatever reason, she just isn't comfortable with the young man trying to pet her at the moment, so she air bites. Actually, now she just gives a warning grumble first, which they have learned to respect and quickly back off.... but what I'm saying is, even my rehabbed dog still has her moments, after all these years! I NEVER let small children or (anyone she doesn't know for that matter) pet her.

So in conclusion, the biggest factor here is going to be teaching yourself and your child how to read dog body language and respect what he is saying. Remember that growling is only communication, nothing more. It is your dog's way of saying, "I"m not comfortable with what is happening right now, please back off." NEVER force yourself on the dog, and ABSOLUTELY NEVER allow your child to force himself on the dog. Even as he grows into an adolescent, the dog may have moments when he does not want to be petted by the boy, but he would welcome an ear rub from you. My sons are usually disappointed when Dottie gets this way, but they respect it. They have no choice, really.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck, and we will try to help you the best we can either way.

[aphrogoddess]

Thank you all for the advice, i knew in my heart what i needed to do and was just clutching at straws, I have had him picked up by the dog warden today, he will try to rehome Max within 7 days and then he will go to the sspca for rehoming. Had to leave him with my mum and get her to do the handover as i was breaking my heart as it was, i jus cldnt face it.....apparently it went disastrously and Max was extemely distressed, especially because the warden was male. Though I know I have helped him begin to adjust to people and noises, aswell as show him what it is to receive love. Just hate to think of him in a kennel just now wondering why I abandoned him, poor little guy, he was obviously mistreated by someone so I am glad I rescued the amazing doggy who will go onto a loving home (without kids).

[jacksdad]

.... stop 'loving' him (Note, him = the dog) as he is not at the stage of managing it. Human 'love' is tough on dogs. That doesn't mean stop being nice to him: it means don't touch him unless you have to, don't hug him or coo at him - give him lots of space and let him decide when to approach you. Keep his world quiet, calm and secure, with a safe space where he can hide when it all gets too much for him.

I realize this thread is in a resolved state, but I wanted to just add a little to Nettle's point here for anyone passing by.

I know it sounds "cold" but with fearful dogs....it is true....the LAST thing they need is human style affection/love. Meaning lots of petting, touching, hugging, being looked at, fussed over etc. The thing a dog who is fearful will value the most is us being SAFE to be around. this actually will show HUGE amounts of love to the dog. how do we make it safe to be around?....what Nettle says...don't hug, coo over him/her, don't spend time loving ling gazing at them, trying to pet them, sit near them etc.

When a dog has learned you are safe to be around, that you will keep them safe, they will take a chance on trusting you and often they will seek you out and you won't have to go to them. To get to this point requires patience and self control on our part. There are somethings we can do that in some cases can help "speed up" the process, and we can get more into that in your own thread if you need help with a fearful dog.

Anyway, it is important to remember with all dogs, but especially with a fearful dog.... we humans start loving and bonding with a dog MUCH quicker than dogs do with us as a rule. empathy has a lot to do with that. we see their less than ideal life, their fear, or even possibly physical pain/issues and we want to help and make things better. Often when we try to do this, we without thought default to proceeding how you would with a fellow human. which makes sense, we are human and we know how to help a human.

But with fearful dogs....often that means we back off, give the dog space, let them learn we are safe to be around. In some ways it is a passive step and we humans often do not really like passive "action". But this is a VERY powerful step and I am constantly amazed at the results it brings.