What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

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delladooo
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by delladooo »

Three would definitely be a pattern Judy which would probably warrant further investigation :? good luck. Jasper sounds like he did really well but Bertie and the slipper sounds more worrying.

Well done MPB, I love hearing about your adventures and, if I'm honest, slightly jealous that I have no motivation to do anything like that :lol:

Rnor, the bichon is definitely a concern. I'm not sure if anything practical would be done and it sounds like you couldn't have a conversation with the lady about it so it's possibly worth ringing animal control just to see if they can do something? If there are laws about keeping dogs on lead then they might have a word?


We had a mixed day yesterday. There was an encounter with a rottie (young, overly friendly and no idea how big she was), an incident with a human, an incident with a shih tzu. Then later on, we took them both Laufey and MiMI out for a good run where MiMi barked at a westie and definitely wasn't happy. I then created more distance for a little (Norfolk?) terrier and kept her distracted so she didn't bark at that. Once they were off lead and playing on the park though a golden retriever came and joined us and she was absolutely fine and trying to play. I'm really not sure if it's a size thing (she definitely prefers larger dogs) or a lead thing or a bit of both :?

On the topic of walking equipment, general query. Can a front-attaching harness change the movement of a dog and cause walking abnormalities? Can a back attaching harness? If so is a collar better?
I ask because a group I follow on facebook has a gorgeous dog who seems to be walking funny and the owner was advised to get solid loose lead walking on a collar and ditch the harness all together and it got me thinking about Laufey because whilst he doesn't often pull in places we go regularly he pulls in new places and if it's really bad I connect his lead to the front and I'm worried it's not good for him. Any thoughts? :?
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Nettle
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by Nettle »

Best to lead off two leads - one attached to the chest of the harness and the other off the collar or off the top of the harness. Arrange your leading so that you lead off the collar/top attachment but the chest attachment comes into play when the dog lunges, turning him towards you. You can use two separate leads or a single one with a clip at either end. It's a lot easier than it sounds, and rather like riding a horse with two reins (for those who ride).

Leading purely off the back of the harness allows a dog to pull hard and to haul people off their feet when lunging.

There is no reason why correct handling using a front attachment should be detrimental to a dog's way of walking. However, walking too slowly for the dog is common, which causes peculiar gait. And some dogs have health issues that make them walk oddly. Not having seen the facebook dog walk, I can't comment if one of these may be the cause.

Once a dog has been trained to walk properly on a loose lead, it is fine to lead off the collar, though many people prefer to stick with the harness. If a long line or (perish the thought) extending lead is used then this ought to be attached to the harness.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

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Erica
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by Erica »

I've heard from a few people that feel the harnesses that have a strap straight across the front can interfere with the movement of the shoulders, and vets do say they see injuries from those harnesses IF the owner just slaps it on and continues to let the dog pull. A lot of the sport trainers around here highly recommend against them. I tend to agree because it's gotten to the point that I can accurately predict if a dog is wearing a harness like that from far enough away that I can't see the harness/collar, based on the way their front legs move. However, with a roman style harness or something like the Perfect Fit, there aren't straps across the shoulders so they don't interfere as much - as long as you aren't constantly pulling on the front clip. I do definitely prefer having either two leashes or a double ended one as Nettle suggests!

Delta and I have been working on his loose leash skills in his PF harness. For that one I'm training him to walk beside me. He does very well but if the situation gets too interesting i clip to the front ring too and it does help quite a bit to remind him not to pull.

I also finally trimmed his body down for the summer. I left his topknot and tail pom alone :) I must say I did a much better job than the first time or even last time! Grooming him is pretty fun too and he is very patient about it now. It's not really exciting or fun for him but the occasional treat keeps him patient :lol: He even took treats with the force dryer going full-blast! :D
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14
delladooo
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by delladooo »

Ahhh thanks Nettle. I only use a double ended lead anyway and the pulling is "exciting new place" which does calm down. That said, I've never used it's double attachment and like it purely for it's length versatility. Next time I feel the need to clip him up front I'll definitely try this :mrgreen: It did look like the facebook dog has a slightly peculiar walk but the owner was consulting a vet too as, I think, he had some joint issues. It just got me to thinking, and that usually leads to worrying.

That's good to know Erica as I really like the look of the Julius k9 harness which is that style. Thankfully Laufey's is a roman style and MiMi alternates between a roman and a vest (she doesn't much like the roman over her head, nor stepping into the vest. I'm working on getting her used to the roman slowly).

It sounds like your grooming skills are coming along well and Delta doesn't mind letting you practise, well done with the dryer. I know he didn't like it to begin with so letting you use it sounds like really good progess :mrgreen:
JudyN
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by JudyN »

We were just about to turn the light off last night when Jasper shot up off his bed and to the other side of his room. I couldn't work out what the problem was, but then spotted it - there was a ladybird crawling over his bed :roll: He refused to go back on his bed after OH had removed the ladybird, and whined on and off for a good hour or two as he only had the carpet to lie on. I'm not sure what time he eventually decided that scary bed was a better option than hard floor, but I need matchsticks to prop up my eyelids this morning :?
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
Ari_RR
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by Ari_RR »

delladooo wrote: On the topic of walking equipment, general query. Can a front-attaching harness change the movement of a dog and cause walking abnormalities? Can a back attaching harness? If so is a collar better?
I ask because a group I follow on facebook has a gorgeous dog who seems to be walking funny and the owner was advised to get solid loose lead walking on a collar and ditch the harness all together and it got me thinking about Laufey because whilst he doesn't often pull in places we go regularly he pulls in new places and if it's really bad I connect his lead to the front and I'm worried it's not good for him. Any thoughts? :?
My 2 cents - I agree, some can. Ari being a big boy with high prey drive and occasional attitude, we've tried all kinds. The ones that go over the shoulders - those in my opinion are uncomfortable and can impact the way dog moves. The ones that go between front legs and around the torso - those are much better, they are not restricting the movement of the joints and muscles. But at the end of the day, when walking the dog, it's best to train to walk on leash/collar. Harness is secondary, for emergencies, when the dog loses control and pulls or lunges... Or for long leads.

UNcomfortable:
Image

Much better:
Image
delladooo
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by delladooo »

Ahhh thanks :D That definitely makes me feel better to know that I'm not hurting him. Personally I prefer a harness over a collar any day because I see too much potential for damage even with a perfect dog but with MiMi being braccy anyway I think I worry about it more. How do you put the first harness on him? I don't think I've seen one like that :?

Speaking of MiMi, I'm trying to condition her to like her roman harness. She's currently in a step in vest one - she doesn't particularly like it but it's easier to get on and safer in the car. Her roman one seems better for general use though both because it looks better and doesn't mess with her fur so much but she hated having it over her head. I've only done it a handful of times, with a small handful of treats each time and today she let me put her whole head in it which is definitely progress so we'll keep going with it. She didn't seem to mind to start off with but whilst she'd let me put it on she wouldn't let mum do it and then hated it completely. We did the exact same thing :roll: never mind, we're getting there now.
MPbandmom
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by MPbandmom »

I came home from work today with plans on taking the dogs out for a walk at the quiet park across town. Instead I ended up taking Sky to the emergency vet because her left rear inner leg was extremely swollen. Shaving, attempted needle aspiration, x ray and blood work completed, vet thinks it is a muscle injury. This may be why she was acting strangely during our run on Saturday. Vet also found a dead tick when he shaved her leg down. Treating for 5 days as inflammation.

She is on house arrest restricted to on leash potty breaks, no, to limited stairs and no running around on slick floors. I got home and took her leash off and proceeded to get her dinner ready. She ran around on the wooden living room floor in circles in excitement to be finally getting dinner, then took off upstairs immediately after dinner before I had managed to pull out the extra baby gate and gate off the stairs. So the baby gate is now at the top of the stairs so she will stay put until a leashed potty break in the am.

OH has so far indicated an unwillingness to follow dr's orders and I will be gone longer than usual tomorrow as I am attending a seminar out of town. I am to report to vet in 24 hours if there is any improvement. Sky doesn't seem to be in any discomfort just waddling a bit due to the swelling. She was a star at the vet's office.
Grammy to Sky and Sirius, who came to live with me, stole my heart, and changed my life forever as I took over their care and learned how to be a dog owner.
delladooo
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by delladooo »

Does Sky do rest MPB? :lol:

I've just been perusing Suzanne Clothier's website and having a look at the articles. She has one about on-lead aggression and (admittedly I've only read the beginning) I'm instantly suspecting that it's my fault (and possibly by extension mum's fault) for MiMi's on lead behaviour. It's because we spot dog, shorten leads, move off to the side, but just far enough that Laufey can't reach. At this point I am usually very focused on Laufey so he's not bounding all over some random dog on the street (regardless of if the dog wants to "say hi" and in our area it's about 50/50) which has caused the reaction in MiMi. I need to come up with a plan to combat this.
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Nettle
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by Nettle »

You need to go so far away that he does not feel the need to react. This can be a different distance for each day and/or each dog. You can turn back, go to the side, anything, but all the while you are too near in your dog's opinion to the other dog, he will react.

Also you need to go quickly away. It's no good doing the slowly-slowly walk past - it's quick-MARCH.

Quite naturally, he will come to trust you to get him out of potentially difficult meetings and then you won't have to go so far away - but in the beginning the distances can be great.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

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jacksdad
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by jacksdad »

Nettle wrote:There is no reason why correct handling using a front attachment should be detrimental to a dog's way of walking.
the exception to this is poorly manufactured or designed front attach harness can cause issue with walking and even sometimes soft tissue injury.

So do pick good equipment to avoid this as not all front clip designs are created "equal".
jacksdad
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by jacksdad »

Ari_RR wrote:UNcomfortable:
Image
this is a design that is often recommend. I no longer do. I am very certain it contributed to some soft tissue injury in my neighbors dog.
delladooo
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by delladooo »

Nettle wrote:You need to go so far away that he does not feel the need to react. This can be a different distance for each day and/or each dog. You can turn back, go to the side, anything, but all the while you are too near in your dog's opinion to the other dog, he will react.

Also you need to go quickly away. It's no good doing the slowly-slowly walk past - it's quick-MARCH.

Quite naturally, he will come to trust you to get him out of potentially difficult meetings and then you won't have to go so far away - but in the beginning the distances can be great.
Generally (read when the other dog isn't dying to meet him) then out of contact range means that he has enough self control to concentrate on a treat and let the dog pass. If the other dog is behaving in a similar manner we get as far as we possibly can and he will ignore it for a treat. But, getting this behaviour from him, I'm pretty sure, has lead to her going "see dog. Dog bad. Bark at dog." I need to work on this with her separately but my exams start next week so, unfortunately, dedicated counter-conditioning is going to have to wait a short while.

Jacksdad, I might just not be recognising it but I don't think I'm familiar with that style of harness anyway so probably wouldn't end up buying one if I happened to be looking for a new harness. I think when I do look for any more harnesses, I might try to find ones designed with both front and back attachments.
Erica
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by Erica »

Most standard roman harnesses have a ring at the chest to attach all the straps there...it's not made to use as a front clip but I've never had an issue with it. :lol: You do want to have it adjusted properly and snugly, though, as if it's loose it will just slide around.

I really REALLY love the Perfect Fit (website). Well worth the money, for me, and well worth saving up for. :) It's got a front and back clip, and even though it's fuzzy it didn't tangle Delta's fur, back when Delta's fur was long enough to tangle.

I think it really depends on the dog whether walking quickly past will help or not - for Pip and Tal, if even if we are far away, if we are walking and there's another person or dog, they're distracted and ramped up. It's a lot easier for me to keep their attention if we move to the side of the road and have them sit and watch me. This did NOT help Ami, or Opal, but it does help them! In fact, I don't have to move far off the road to have them sit and watch to keep them from barking at passers by (I don't even need to move off the road but cars are a thing so we do), but if I keep walking, we could have twice the distance and they can't concentrate on me. The goal will be for them to walk past others without barking and lunging, but for now this is an improvement. Then again, their reaction is excitement based rather than fear based - frustrated greeter stuff. That probably has a lot to do with it. The sit and watch works on their self control and keeping arousal levels low, whereas for fearful dogs the goal is to keep them far enough away from the monster and to not expose them to the monster for too long. Does that make sense?
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14
delladooo
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by delladooo »

Definitely does make sense, and I'm pretty sure I created one of each so I think I need to work on them separately and together which could make for some good training for MiMi and nothing new for Laufey.

I do keep looking at the perfect fit but for now we're doing very well on the Roman we're using. It most definitely is loose (I tightened the waist up a bit today) but much smaller and it's too small for his head. It can't come off and doesn't rub, plus he seems to like it, so for now it works well but longer term I want to find something "special" for him
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