What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

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Nettle
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by Nettle » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:32 am

Lol: intelligence it is!

Animals are very good at linking cause and effect (would that more people did that). So a series of noises (speech) or series of actions, or both together, are quickly learned.

In the same way, people who LIE to their dogs are almost as quickly worked out. People should never lie to animals, because they realise that and lose all trust. Without trust we don't get co-operation, and training is essentially co-operative.
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by JudyN » Wed Mar 27, 2019 3:05 am

Nettle wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:32 am
People should never lie to animals, because they realise that and lose all trust.
Having said that, do you get fed up when after you give your dog a couple of treats and then say 'all gone', people tell you he knows that you're fibbing because he can smell the other treats in your pocket? I only use 'all gone' in the sense of 'That's your lot for now' but still they think he'll know I'm lying...

I do wonder how many dogs don't demonstrate their intelligence just because their owner doesn't talk to them (above trained commands, 'No!' 'Gerroff!' and so on) or listen to them. Though I reckon this heightened sensitivity to what their owners are thinking/doing and what is going on around them may be a particular feature of sighthounds (including RRs, Ari!).
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009

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Nettle
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by Nettle » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:04 am

i get fed up with the people/dog interface in general!! :lol: especially when it refers to what I am doing with my (quiet well-behaved) dog and they can't/won't attempt to control theirs.

The empty hands palm out and "All gone" mean just the same with me as they do with you. But people "think" (how I wish they would think :roll: ) it means other things - just as they "think" rewarding a dog is stupid. My kind of "stupid" works.
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by JudyN » Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:50 am

Absolutely - 'He's got you wrapped round his little finger' because he'll do manipulative things like hang around in the kitchen just so he'll get a reward for leaving, or get on the sofa just for the reward of getting off when asked. But if he leaves the kitchen when asked and gets off the sofa when asked, what more do you want? And who is manipulating whom?

Then there's 'Who is taking who for a walk?' when I wait for him to decide which way we're going. Neither, we're having a walk together.
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009

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Nettle
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by Nettle » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:24 am

'Who is taking who for a walk?' I got that when I was teaching my last puppy how to walk on a lead. She was doing brilliantly, but it was her first time, and she was nine weeks old!!!!

As distinct from people I see almost daily doing the pull-heave-pull-haul-pull routine - that they have done for years - and I wonder why they haven't clocked that a) it doesn't work and b) why not get a professional in to show them how to train loose lead walking?
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by Ari_RR » Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:22 am

We are doing great with lose lead walking with Baby Miles.
Well... rephrase - Miles and I (and chicken treats) are doing great with loose lead walking.
But Good Lord, it takes A LOT of patience!

Meanwhile, my dearest wife and mother have already started getting him used to gentle leader contraption :twisted:

Clearly, patience is not everyone’s virtue.
Ari, Rhodesian Ridgeback, Sept 2010 - Dec 2018.
Miles, Rhodesian Ridgeback, b. Nov 2018

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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by JudyN » Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:37 am

I think there's a feeling that you have to 'win' all the time (or the dog has won instead, which is a disaster...). But that has never been a foundation for a good relationship, which involves compromise and harmony, give and take, and understanding. If OH and I want to do do different, mutually incompatible things, neither of us try to 'win', we work out the best and fairest compromise/solution, trying not to favour ourselves or (particularly in his case) or the other person (because he really would give me his last Rolo if I asked).

It seems to me that if J does ask to do something I have to overrule, like walk far further than possible, or go into the Post Office when we pass because they give him gravy bones, he's more accepting of me saying 'No' just because he knows that I have understood and considered his request, and would have granted it if it was possible. I wonder if a lot of 'stubborn' dogs are persistent because they don't believe their owners have understood the importance of what they're telling them.

Lord only knows what the 'pack hierarchy' clan would make of all the lurcher owners sitting on the floor because their dogs have taken up all available sofa space :lol: (Now I would draw the line at that, we didn't buy him that eye-wateringly exppensive Orvis dog bed for nothing :lol: )
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Nettle
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by Nettle » Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:48 am

That's right, JudyN, you sit on his bed!!!! :lol:

You are SO perceptive. I don't know why, for many people, life has to be a constant competition. Listening to an animal (or person) and compromising where necessary does not mean we have "lost".
But as Ari says (you rock, Ari!) patience is not everybody's skill.

Back in the '60s (gulp) I used to drive a pony stallion who always had an ice cream at the village post office on one of our routes. He was very vocal, being a stallion, and would 'telephone' all the way along the road so that they'd have his ice cream ready. We had to make sure never to go that way on a Sunday when the shop was closed.
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by Dibbythedog » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:41 am

I lie to my dogs :shock: Libby doesnt like going out to the toilet sometimes . I just go to the back door and open it and say out loud is that a squirrel ? or just say hello . She rushes out to check . It saves me having to persuade her and its her choice to go out.

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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by JudyN » Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:23 am

Dibbythedog wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:41 am
I just go to the back door and open it and say out loud is that a squirrel ?
Ah, that's not lying though because you're asking a question. The only downside is that one day, having caught on, she'll look at you and say 'No of course it's not a squirrel.' But of course the word 'squirrel' is likely to produce a knee-jerk reaction before the clever part of her brain kicks in.

I do the same, but it's 'Are there monsters?' :lol:
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009

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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by Dibbythedog » Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:06 am

JudyN wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:23 am
Dibbythedog wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:41 am
I just go to the back door and open it and say out loud is that a squirrel ?
Ah, that's not lying though because you're asking a question. The only downside is that one day, having caught on, she'll look at you and say 'No of course it's not a squirrel.' But of course the word 'squirrel' is likely to produce a knee-jerk reaction before the clever part of her brain kicks in.

I do the same, but it's 'Are there monsters?' :lol:
:lol: Good point !

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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by Nettle » Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:27 am

My dogs would never fall for that - they have always been stern taskmasters!

A very naughty "dog expert" (as in: worked at a dog rescue place) person I knew tried to wind my dogs up (she was very into power play) by saying words like "Cats!" "Rabbits" in an excited hiss.

Only those of you who know sighthound types can guess the degree of withering looks she was given.
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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by JudyN » Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:13 am

I'm wondering whether a terrier-type dog, if he hears 'Squirrels!' would get really excited, and that level of arousal would be so self-rewarding that it almost wouldn't matter that there weren't any squirrels. It's all that frenzied barking, yapping and jumping up and down that is the fun bit.

I can imagine if I tried 'Squirrels!' on Jasper he'd be more likely to get excited (not that likely though - squirrels are just for fun if he's feeling lively) than if I said 'Rabbits!' or 'Deer!' If he understood the latter, he'd stop, calmly survey the landscape, and come to his own conclusion about whether to put his hunting head on. 'Frenzied' wouldn't come into it :lol:
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009

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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by Lotsaquestions » Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:42 am

Hey all

I have some quite horrible updates. You all know that I lost my house and Merlin had to be cared for by my parents. Unfortunately they are preventing me from having access to him entirely, and are claiming he is theirs. My mother is bi-polar, and she has been quite vindictive and nasty in deciding Merlin is 'hers', going so far as to prevent me from holding his lead months ago, leading up to pushing me over in the street because I wanted to say hello to him. Slowly and systematically they had been preventing me from walking him, and just before they stopped me seeing him entirely my mother would go so far as to overwalk him (so that his knee was in a great deal of pain) the day before I was 'allowed' to walk him, meaning I couldn't take him anywhere. Myself and my partner had booked and organised a dog walking holiday, but were then forbidden from taking Merlin away with us unless my mother went. We were then not allowed to take him to his vets unless my mother was present, and finally I was not allowed to see him unless I had a chaperone (my mother).

To top it off, they contacted my ex who, still bitter from everything, claimed Merlin was entirely his yesterday and signed him over to my parents. As I was being financially supported by him but we were not married, this has complicated what would have been an easy case of theft. As you all know Merlin was mine, I cared for him, fed him, trained him, the works. I am currently going through a solicitor to see what I can do, but it may cost up to £4k to fight my case in court. Sad and stressful times all around. The recent escalations happened because me and my partner are buying a house, which meant we could take Merlin back.

It's been two weeks since I've been able to see him and I miss him dearly. The very sad thing is my mother will grow bored of him eventually and move onto a new 'obsession' as she has always done.

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Re: What are you and your dogs up to today? Part 2

Post by JudyN » Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:06 am

Oh - I'm shocked, and don't know what to say. What a horrible, horrible situation.

Do you think Merlin is reasonably well cared for at the moment? You mention that he's been overwalked, so maybe not. Do you think when she grows tired of him she will agree to hand him over to you? And do you have any documents that prove ownership, or will it just be your word against your mother's/ex's?

I really hope that there's a happy ending. (((((Hugs)))))
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009

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