This video has been doing the rounds on facebook today - *content warning* dog attacks small boy's leg
http://www.theindychannel.com/tablet-sh ... eld-051414
Now obviously it's the amazing cat "leaping to the rescue" that has everyone excited - but I find the dog's behaviour REALLY curious. When people tell us "I wasn't doing anything it came out of nowhere!" we all inwardly roll our eyes and think 'well there MUST have been something' envisaging them hanging over the dog and being all up in its face. And while there still must have been 'something' it's not so easy to work out what!
The dog definitely seems to start stalking... but the cat doesn't seem to be in sight - would it really stalk the child like that? It all seems very odd to me, but I'm no expert so I would be interested to hear your opinions
"Cat saves boy from dog" video - behaviour analysis
Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost
Re: "Cat saves boy from dog" video - behaviour analysis
Can't get it to play but I think it might be my computer, so will call back later. I want to see this!
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog
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Re: "Cat saves boy from dog" video - behaviour analysis
Thank you - seen it now. Buy that cat some prawns!
What I think - there is previous form here. I wonder if that dog has been trained to tug tyres? Do you see how it is highly aroused right from its first appearance? Why was someone videoing the dog then? Did they expect something? Ah - reading the comments I now see it was a surveillance camera. Do you see how it goes in tightly to the car's rear wheel - I wondered if it was going to grab that. I wondered if it meant to grab the bike and the kiddie was just in the way? A dog that powerful could easily have done far more damage. Note too that the dog went round the back of the bike - if it had been after the child, I suspect it would have tackled it higher up and from the side.
Nevertheless, although bite inhibition was shown, the dog was intent on getting a result. And without the cat's interference, there was every chance IMO that the child could have been severely mauled. Whether this would have been intentional or not, only the dog knows.
But there is definitely history here. This isn't spontaneous - the dog meant to do that. And it isn't the first time it felt that way.
I wasn't all that im,pressed with the woman's reaction, leaving the kiddie and running back to the house. But I wasn't impressed with such a small child being allowed so near a road while on wheels either. I bet there is a whole lot more to this story. I wouldn't be wholly surprised to find it was faked.
But - what a cat!
What I think - there is previous form here. I wonder if that dog has been trained to tug tyres? Do you see how it is highly aroused right from its first appearance? Why was someone videoing the dog then? Did they expect something? Ah - reading the comments I now see it was a surveillance camera. Do you see how it goes in tightly to the car's rear wheel - I wondered if it was going to grab that. I wondered if it meant to grab the bike and the kiddie was just in the way? A dog that powerful could easily have done far more damage. Note too that the dog went round the back of the bike - if it had been after the child, I suspect it would have tackled it higher up and from the side.
Nevertheless, although bite inhibition was shown, the dog was intent on getting a result. And without the cat's interference, there was every chance IMO that the child could have been severely mauled. Whether this would have been intentional or not, only the dog knows.
But there is definitely history here. This isn't spontaneous - the dog meant to do that. And it isn't the first time it felt that way.
I wasn't all that im,pressed with the woman's reaction, leaving the kiddie and running back to the house. But I wasn't impressed with such a small child being allowed so near a road while on wheels either. I bet there is a whole lot more to this story. I wouldn't be wholly surprised to find it was faked.
But - what a cat!
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog
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Re: "Cat saves boy from dog" video - behaviour analysis
I read something saying that the mother was running back at the dog who was coming back, to see him off. I don't know if that's conjecture or fact but it would make sense.
Emmabeth has a very good theory about this that I just read on facebook, but I'll let her say it (oh the suspense!), I think she might just be right, and it ties in with what you say, Nettle.
Emmabeth has a very good theory about this that I just read on facebook, but I'll let her say it (oh the suspense!), I think she might just be right, and it ties in with what you say, Nettle.
Re: "Cat saves boy from dog" video - behaviour analysis
The way the angles changed looked a little faked to me, but I guess if the video switched from one surveillance camera to another that could be why. My first thought on the motivation from the attack was the bicycle itself and noise it could be making. Having a sound reactive dog who absolutely freaks out at things like training wheels on bicycles that are noisy. She also doesn't like it when children talk and will charge. The dog in the video seemed to be moving more slowly rather than just charging blindly at some offensive sound though.
Grammy to Sky and Sirius, who came to live with me, stole my heart, and changed my life forever as I took over their care and learned how to be a dog owner.
Re: "Cat saves boy from dog" video - behaviour analysis
I hate the way that most comments just state that the dog is aggressive and should be put down. There's something more complicated going on and I'd want to know all the facts....
... have just googled and found this:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/weird ... 75674.html
... have just googled and found this:
Bakersfield police identified the attacking dog as an eight-month-old Labrador-Chow mix, who apparently was known for having a dislike for children and bicycles.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/weird ... 75674.html
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
Re: "Cat saves boy from dog" video - behaviour analysis
http://nypost.com/2014/05/14/cat-saves- ... og-attack/
This article might shed some light.......... the boys mother is admitting that her own children are NOT GOOD with animals. I guess her three little cherubs abuse the cat by her own admission. I can't believe she was stupid enough to say that out loud to the press.
This article might shed some light.......... the boys mother is admitting that her own children are NOT GOOD with animals. I guess her three little cherubs abuse the cat by her own admission. I can't believe she was stupid enough to say that out loud to the press.
Re: "Cat saves boy from dog" video - behaviour analysis
gwd wrote:http://nypost.com/2014/05/14/cat-saves- ... og-attack/
This article might shed some light.......... the boys mother is admitting that her own children are NOT GOOD with animals. I guess her three little cherubs abuse the cat by her own admission. I can't believe she was stupid enough to say that out loud to the press.
Crikey. Poor cat.
I don't 'get' why the dog has to be held in case it has rabies, and then will be euthanased after x days. Why not euthanase it now and then test to see if it has rabies - given that the only reliable test has to be done on a dead animal anyway?
But it won't have rabies.
Lab/chow?
I should coco.A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog
SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
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Re: "Cat saves boy from dog" video - behaviour analysis
I have only watched a little of this video as my pc is acting up but thought I'd share anyways http://metro.co.uk/2014/05/15/watch-mee ... k-4729248/
Amazingly tolerant cat I must say, my boys would NOT just meow if someone grabbed their leg like that (that's if a kid could get near them which is doubtful for all but the Diz who would ask them for food and them leave once they didn't produce any
).
Amazingly tolerant cat I must say, my boys would NOT just meow if someone grabbed their leg like that (that's if a kid could get near them which is doubtful for all but the Diz who would ask them for food and them leave once they didn't produce any
).Operant conditioning rocks but classical conditioning rules
Re: "Cat saves boy from dog" video - behaviour analysis
one has to wonder what lead the cat to attack the dog. Doubly so once you hear how the cat is treated by the kids. which may or may not even be relevent to what happened between cat and dog.
So, again the question what was going on?
Now I don't know a whole lot of cat ethology, but one thing I have heard from a credible source is that cats "time share". let me see if I can explain without bungling what I am trying say.
Cats are territorial, but from what I understand it's not all or nothing, they can and do "time share". some how, some way they know for example that cat A gets the territory from 6am to 12pm, and cat B gets the same territory from 12pm to 6pm.
Assuming I explain that right, would a more likely explanation than cat saving human because cat really "loved it's human" be the cat was "upset" that dog was violating "cat rules" and intruded on the cats territory while it was the cats turn to be there and so chased it away? which had the fortunate side benefit of helping out the kid?
while I am always open to the possibility that the bond between human and an animal could lead to the animal protecting the human, I am not sure that story is always actuate or true in all case that a human happened to be "saved" by their animal.
So, again the question what was going on?
Now I don't know a whole lot of cat ethology, but one thing I have heard from a credible source is that cats "time share". let me see if I can explain without bungling what I am trying say.
Cats are territorial, but from what I understand it's not all or nothing, they can and do "time share". some how, some way they know for example that cat A gets the territory from 6am to 12pm, and cat B gets the same territory from 12pm to 6pm.
Assuming I explain that right, would a more likely explanation than cat saving human because cat really "loved it's human" be the cat was "upset" that dog was violating "cat rules" and intruded on the cats territory while it was the cats turn to be there and so chased it away? which had the fortunate side benefit of helping out the kid?
while I am always open to the possibility that the bond between human and an animal could lead to the animal protecting the human, I am not sure that story is always actuate or true in all case that a human happened to be "saved" by their animal.
Re: "Cat saves boy from dog" video - behaviour analysis
*edited after watching video yet again*Nettle wrote:I wasn't all that im,pressed with the woman's reaction, leaving the kiddie and running back to the house. But I wasn't impressed with such a small child being allowed so near a road while on wheels either.
when the adult was crouched down with the child, she is crouched low enough to see under the car. the cat appears to be with the adult and child at this moment (see about at the 30 mark) and there appears to be a moving shadow on the other side of the car. quality is hard to say for 100% certainty it was a moving shadow, but if so then it is very reasonable to conclude she was moving to deal with the dog returning. hard to say. if it was the dog returning tough call as to if you grab your kid, or keep your hands free to deal with the threat. the choice would depending on personality.
as for it appearing that the kid is playing outside alone near the street. Not sure how neighborhoods are in the UK, but at certain times of the day neighborhoods like shown in the video can be basically ghost towns. As such I can understand how a parent could become a bit too comfortable with how infrequently cars drive by at times and thus allow their kids to play outside like that. also the adult showed up very quickly when the dog had the kid, so i am not sure the kid was really unsupervised.
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Swanny1790
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Re: "Cat saves boy from dog" video - behaviour analysis
- Video appears to have been captured by a very good to excellent quality home security system with motion detection capabilities. Note that the view switches from camera to camera based on movement detected within each camera's range of 'view'. It's expensive technology but not outlandishly so for those who feel the need. I don't believe it is faked in any way.
- Mom was on the scene quickly enough for me to consider she was probably outdoors and at least keeping some sort of eye on things - though perhaps occupied with some other task simultaneously.
- To analyze the canine behavior, I downloaded the video from YouTube and played it at slow speed with the full-screen setting (freeware and Quicktime make that easy to do). The dog made no attempt to strike at the rear tire of the bicycle. He bypassed the bike to make a flanking attack on the child. In other words, I believe the dog intentionally targeted the kid rather than the combination of kid on bike.
In all predators the prey drive follows an inevitable sequence: Search (orient, eye); Stalk, chase; Bite (grab-bite, kill-bite); dissect, consume. Between 12 and 13 seconds into the video I see the dog focus his vision on the child, and at 14 seconds he begins the stalking stage. At 16 seconds, the chase and grab-bite happen almost, but not quite, simultaneously. The intervention of the cat and adult human disrupted the sequence. Based on what I saw, I believe this was a predatory attack rather than aggression, fear or agonistic (related to fighting) behavior.
- The grab-bite was secure, immediately followed by dragging the kid while head shaking. This is done by wild canines to reduce the prey animal's mobility and help set up a situation in which an opportunity for a secure kill-bite can be delivered. The result is a level-4 dog bite on Dr. Ian Dunbar's bite severity scale. Level 4. One to four punctures from a single bite with at least one puncture deeper than half the length of the dog’s canine teeth. May also have deep bruising around the wound (dog held on for N seconds and bore down) or lacerations in both directions (dog held on and shook its head from side to side).
Here is what Dr. Dunbar wrote for Association of Pet Dog Trainers (now renamed to Association of Professional Dog Trainers) regarding the prognosis of modifying the behavior of a level-4 biter. Levels 4: The dog has insufficient bite inhibition and is very dangerous. Prognosis is poor because of the difficulty and danger of trying to teach bite inhibition to an adult hard-biting dog and because absolute owner-compliance is rare. Only work with the dog in exceptional circumstances, e.g., the owner is a dog professional and has sworn 100% compliance. Make sure the owner signs a form in triplicate stating that they understand and take full responsibility that: 1. The dog is a Level 4 biter and is likely to cause an equivalent amount of damage WHEN it bites again (which it most probably will) and should therefore, be confined to the home at all times and only allowed contact with adult owners. 2. Whenever, children or guests visit the house, the dog should be confined to a single locked room or roofed, chain-link run with the only keys kept on a chain around the neck of each adult owner (to prevent children or guests entering the dog's confinement area.) 3. The dog is muzzled before leaving the house and only leaves the house for visits to a veterinary clinic. 4. The incidents have all been reported to the relevant authorities — animal control or police. Give the owners one copy, keep one copy for your files and give one copy to the dog's veterinarian.
Based on what I observed, I believe that had the cat and parent not intervened the dog would completed the predatory chain and would have killed and perhaps attempted to consume the child.
Given that the owners have already shown their inability to appropriately confine their dog, I have to concur with the general public's reaction that the dog should be euthanized as a matter of public safety. The other option - total confinement 24/7 is so detrimental to the dog's mental well-being that it would create a higher risk of biting people in the future.
- Mom was on the scene quickly enough for me to consider she was probably outdoors and at least keeping some sort of eye on things - though perhaps occupied with some other task simultaneously.
- To analyze the canine behavior, I downloaded the video from YouTube and played it at slow speed with the full-screen setting (freeware and Quicktime make that easy to do). The dog made no attempt to strike at the rear tire of the bicycle. He bypassed the bike to make a flanking attack on the child. In other words, I believe the dog intentionally targeted the kid rather than the combination of kid on bike.
In all predators the prey drive follows an inevitable sequence: Search (orient, eye); Stalk, chase; Bite (grab-bite, kill-bite); dissect, consume. Between 12 and 13 seconds into the video I see the dog focus his vision on the child, and at 14 seconds he begins the stalking stage. At 16 seconds, the chase and grab-bite happen almost, but not quite, simultaneously. The intervention of the cat and adult human disrupted the sequence. Based on what I saw, I believe this was a predatory attack rather than aggression, fear or agonistic (related to fighting) behavior.
- The grab-bite was secure, immediately followed by dragging the kid while head shaking. This is done by wild canines to reduce the prey animal's mobility and help set up a situation in which an opportunity for a secure kill-bite can be delivered. The result is a level-4 dog bite on Dr. Ian Dunbar's bite severity scale. Level 4. One to four punctures from a single bite with at least one puncture deeper than half the length of the dog’s canine teeth. May also have deep bruising around the wound (dog held on for N seconds and bore down) or lacerations in both directions (dog held on and shook its head from side to side).
Here is what Dr. Dunbar wrote for Association of Pet Dog Trainers (now renamed to Association of Professional Dog Trainers) regarding the prognosis of modifying the behavior of a level-4 biter. Levels 4: The dog has insufficient bite inhibition and is very dangerous. Prognosis is poor because of the difficulty and danger of trying to teach bite inhibition to an adult hard-biting dog and because absolute owner-compliance is rare. Only work with the dog in exceptional circumstances, e.g., the owner is a dog professional and has sworn 100% compliance. Make sure the owner signs a form in triplicate stating that they understand and take full responsibility that: 1. The dog is a Level 4 biter and is likely to cause an equivalent amount of damage WHEN it bites again (which it most probably will) and should therefore, be confined to the home at all times and only allowed contact with adult owners. 2. Whenever, children or guests visit the house, the dog should be confined to a single locked room or roofed, chain-link run with the only keys kept on a chain around the neck of each adult owner (to prevent children or guests entering the dog's confinement area.) 3. The dog is muzzled before leaving the house and only leaves the house for visits to a veterinary clinic. 4. The incidents have all been reported to the relevant authorities — animal control or police. Give the owners one copy, keep one copy for your files and give one copy to the dog's veterinarian.
Based on what I observed, I believe that had the cat and parent not intervened the dog would completed the predatory chain and would have killed and perhaps attempted to consume the child.
Given that the owners have already shown their inability to appropriately confine their dog, I have to concur with the general public's reaction that the dog should be euthanized as a matter of public safety. The other option - total confinement 24/7 is so detrimental to the dog's mental well-being that it would create a higher risk of biting people in the future.
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lucyandbella
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Re: "Cat saves boy from dog" video - behaviour analysis
That was a very brutal attack and I think that dog would have continued until the kid was dead had he not been stopped. I agree the dog should be put down. What if he had grab the boys neck! 
To answer some questions:
Not fake, pretty California normal to have that many security cameras especially in certain cities. Also by law they have to hold a dog for a certain number of days before putting it down. There is a state mandate for sure and then a county one i believe but stockton animal services just got in huge trouble for killing dogs before holding them the full hold time. Also I think the dog would have to be "charged" as a dangerous dog and the city will say they want to put it down BUT owners have the right to go to court and fight for the life of the dog if they want to try to get the dog back (if owners don't want it animal services can simply euthanize after hold period ends). Heck just a month ago some group fought for the life of a dog that ripped a childs face off even though the owner himself surrendered the dog to animal services, and the group won! So I think they have to give a chance for the owner to claim the dog and then go to court. So they can't euthanize it right away even for a rabies check.
To answer some questions:
Not fake, pretty California normal to have that many security cameras especially in certain cities. Also by law they have to hold a dog for a certain number of days before putting it down. There is a state mandate for sure and then a county one i believe but stockton animal services just got in huge trouble for killing dogs before holding them the full hold time. Also I think the dog would have to be "charged" as a dangerous dog and the city will say they want to put it down BUT owners have the right to go to court and fight for the life of the dog if they want to try to get the dog back (if owners don't want it animal services can simply euthanize after hold period ends). Heck just a month ago some group fought for the life of a dog that ripped a childs face off even though the owner himself surrendered the dog to animal services, and the group won! So I think they have to give a chance for the owner to claim the dog and then go to court. So they can't euthanize it right away even for a rabies check.
Re: "Cat saves boy from dog" video - behaviour analysis
Had it have been my child, I think I'd be rather insistent that happen.JudyN wrote:I hate the way that most comments just state that the dog is aggressive and should be put down.
The child wasn't messing with the dog, the dog wasn't cornered by the child, nor was the dog startled......... yes, I know it was a puppy but, damn.......
