"Cat saves boy from dog" video - behaviour analysis

[jacksdad]

this article paints a different picture of the child and the cat's relationship.

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs/ca ... .html?vp=1

[emmabeth]

I thought after watching it through multiple times yesterday...

The dog has previous history of being wound up by something, probably the cat (or other cats), possibly its a dog living in a front yard, things passing by frequently (cats, kids on bikes etc).

I don't think hes entirely UN used to being loose in that housing area, hes mooching and looking pretty comfortable until he sees 'something' under the car, he's not to me, acting like a dog for whom this is the first time he has escaped.

That said, as soon as he sees something under the car, he wants to know more, he approaches quickly but with some caution - he's not scared, no pilo-erection, but the way he then approaches the boy without really seeming to notice him, makes me think he is either looking for the cat, or expecting the cat, and then he is slightly past the boy and turns to grab his leg.

I did wonder if perhaps the boy made some sort of sound, or he smelled the cat on him. Im not sure I buy the idea that he absolutely definitely intended to grab the boy the second he was able to see him, if he DID... then he had plenty of opportunity, why come up slowly past him then turn.


The cat - I think this cat has a long history of ambushing passing dogs, if that history is with THIS dog that would explain his caution when coming around the car - dogs seeing cats under cars is a situation I am horribly familar with and only those with previous experience of a cat exploding out at them tend to move that slowly. Dogs who haven't learned that just dive in like idiots!


What actually interested me possibly more though, was the way different people interpreted this video, based on what they EXPECTED to see... some of those things were:

'Dog is attracted by the pedaling movement which is odd - he can't be, this bike HAS no pedals, its a 'walker' bike!
Dog is attracted by the sound of training wheels - again, you might expect there to be training wheels but there aren't any as its not a pedal bike, doesn't need them.
Dog grabs the boys foot - not so, he grabs the boy by the leg right below the knee
Dog is scared - I see nothing at all to base that on!
Dog 'sneaks' up behind and grabs from behind - again, not what actually happens.

I think the dog is conflicted and this is possibly a case of predatory drift, hes expecting cat, his whole body is screaming CAT CAT CAT STALK IT GET IT CAT...... and the cat isn't where he thought, if he has past experience of this cats behaviour hes on alert, the boy makes a sound just as the dog is scanning for the cat and so he turns and grabs and shaaaaaaaaaaaaaakes just as he would if he had caught the cat. Dogs that have experience in facing off against cats and actually catching cats, do not nip them or just grab them, they want to kill them fast because cats fight back!

[ClareMarsh]

I watched it in slow mo too and am with Swanny. I was going to type out what I thought as I watched it (multiple times) but it's pretty much exactly what Swanny said

I really can't see how a case can be made for not killing the dog, the whole sequence the dog was thinking and controlled in it's actions. I didn't see any fear or over arousal etc Whatever has caused this dog to behave that way is interesting from a dog behaviour point of view but I don't think mitigates what happened. Maybe, and it's a BIG maybe, with different owners the dog could be appropriately managed BUT it only takes one slip.

What I've found as scary as the dog's behaviour is people's lack of understanding of what is going on. My concern is that this gets lumped in with dogs who snap at a child after putting up with them bouncing all over them for half an hour. For me, this is a totally different scenario.

[Nettle]

Thanks for the explanations re: child playing in street, security camera use, what is seen when footage is enhanced etc. Much appreciated.

It's my belief the cat was being territorial, but I am nowhere near as sound on cat behaviour as I am on dogs. I have seen cats attack dogs like that on a number of occasions and it has always been territorial. I agree with Emms that this cat probably is a regular ambush' cat, which would explain the dog sneaking round the car. IME when a dog targets a human, there is no sneaking involved.

More about the rabies idea - if the authorities had honestly been concerned about rabies, then the child and its family would have already started a course of ravies shots. Maybe they have.

The links are beginning to form with the puppy hates kids/bikes, the cat is maltreated by the children and the mother thinks it's okay, the dog is not properly confined. Poor pup is better off dead, child would have been better off not having been bitten. But without doubt, there is a lot of history to this.

[Nettle]

To clarify my above: IMO the pup is not properly cared for and already has issues that will require commitment and experienced help to resolve. It isn't going to get them. Therefore it is better off euthanased.

The phrase "I should coco" is an English working-class expression indicative of doubt, as in "I really don't think so". The dog's breeding is not really relevant in this case as any dog can react badly to the wrong 'triggers' (no attack is 'for no reason') but adds to the whole concept of casual lack of knowledge.

RE: cat sleeping in crib (jacksdad's link) - they do this for warmth. When I was a child, babies' prams were fitted with nets to stop cats getting in and suffocating the baby, because they would lie on the warmest place, which was its face.

[gwd]

Thanks for the explanations re: child playing in street, security camera use, what is seen when footage is enhanced etc. Much appreciated.

What is 'normal' re: children playing in streets is different from region to region in the US. In the west, our homes are built in subdivisions, often dual income families. In my area (I don't work outside the home) after 9am, there might be only one car go by my house the entire day. The closest retail establishment is 4.5 miles away. It's not unusual at all (neighborhood depending) for there to be lots of little cherubs playing on/in the street during the summer or when school lets out. Our residential speed limits are 15/25mph depending on the street.

And security cameras are not uncommon at all, especially in Cal. ....i don't have one but my neighbor does.

[Swanny1790]

Victoria was interviewed about this interaction by HLN. Video of that interview in posted elsewhere on this site, at http://positively.com/2014/05/15/victor ... eo-on-hln/.

[ckranz]

I thought I posted something on this last night but it appears to have disappeared.

Emmabeth, just because at this time this child has seemingly did nothing does not mean that past experience for this dog with children has not been a frightening experience and the presence alone could be enough to trigger this response. I have seen this with Khan in the early days (no bite but certainly if he had not been on leash he would have gone after a child for being a child).

The cameras also only contain a video record and there is no audio. Noise from the bike (pedal or no pedal) can trigger response much like dogs that lunge and bark at skateboarders and bike riders. We also do not know prior to the attack what sounds the child could have been making. Hi pitched noises can also set off fearful dogs.

There are plenty of things that could have set this dog off and this is no means a justification for this dog's behavior. IMO the greatest fault is the fact that this dog was "At Large" meaning off leash and wandering. If the owner is aware of any bad history of this dog with children they could have a lot of serious problems legally and criminally for allowing their dog to become at large.

The dog was not stalking the cat...the presence of the child and what ever the child was doing audibly and visually was too unnerving for this dog.

The time frame is to also allow the legal process and potential battle to "save" the dog...his day in court to proceed. In most cases though if the owner requests and surrenders the dog to be euthanized the quarantine can be waived in CA. The 10 days is also to asses the dogs behavior overall for the pending hearing on the dog's disposition.

[jacksdad]

if you watch the video frame by frame, the cat comes from a direction that would support the theory that dog is actually anticipating the cat and the kid just happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

the angle is bad. we have a tree and the kid blocking our view in some critical points of the sequence. I would love to have a head on view of the dog to see if he was actually looking at the kid or if he was as emma suggests "kitty, kitty, YIKES KID, comp"

was the dog after the kid or the cat... boy, hard to say. I think Emma makes a good case for this being about the dog vs cat. in my neighborhood my dog and I have been "jumped" by 3 different cats. two of them, I am a very high confidence the "attack" was play maybe curiosity in terms of motivation. The other...it wanted to get my dog, the scratch that drew blood on my dog after charged out from underneath the car leaves little doubt...nor the fact it continued to approach, arch back, hiss, not back down, etc.

The one observation I think that Emma got wrong though is I do think (after watching frame by frame) that the dog was pilo-erected, and his mouth might be in a "pucker" (but could be growling or barking. hard to say quality isn't great) starting at the 58 second mark of the security camera time stamp when he is in the driveway. this is also when his stalking crouch really kicks in.

remember, pilo-erection is arousal, and not in of it's self a sign of aggression.

Ckranz, your theory is solid as well. it was actually a bit more in line with my first thoughts. but we are missing some contextual information and history that would help us know which theory is the most likely.

[jacksdad]

Thanks for the explanations re: child playing in street, security camera use, what is seen when footage is enhanced etc. Much appreciated.

What is 'normal' re: children playing in streets is different from region to region in the US. In the west, our homes are built in subdivisions, often dual income families. In my area (I don't work outside the home) after 9am, there might be only one car go by my house the entire day. The closest retail establishment is 4.5 miles away. It's not unusual at all (neighborhood depending) for there to be lots of little cherubs playing on/in the street during the summer or when school lets out. Our residential speed limits are 15/25mph depending on the street.

I think Wayne and Garth illustrate how this works best
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzaZkdljxlo

even in my immediate neighborhood can very by as little as just a couple houses over. I live on the main street that loops through the neighborhood. you would NOT want to let kids play on this street. two houses over literally, there is a cul-de-sac were it would be safe to let your kids play out on "the street". next street over (still in our "complex") is kind of so/so. older kids in the 8-13 year old range could probably play safe "on the street" but not younger.

then we have neighborhoods in town that are ghost towns traffic wise, others are lining major streets and even adults have to be on high alert to keep from getting squished.

[gwd]

I think Wayne and Garth illustrate how this works best

GAME ON.

That plays out in my neighborhood every summer......... but since so, cal isn't known for hockey, it's either basketball or a game of 'home run derby' which involves a fungo bat and a whiffle ball! ........depending on the season.

[minkee]

'home run derby' which involves a fungo bat and a whiffle ball!

This sounds like something out of Harry Potter