Clicker Training for Horses

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Suzette
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Clicker Training for Horses

Post by Suzette »

I recently purchased a beautiful, ten year old buckskin quarterhorse gelding who is about as lovely as can be in every way but one. He came to me moderately head-shy. He won't rear or fly backwards, but when you go (no matter how slow and calmly) above his cheek, he raises his head, will take a few steps back, pricks his ears and shows a bit of the whites of his eyes. So while he is clearly distressed, he stays relatively calm about it too.

For the fellow horsewomen (and men) among us, I was looking for some advice as I was thinking this might be a good opportunity to use clicker training to help him relax and become comfortable with having his head and ears touched. What do you think? I would also like to know how you would proceed. I have used CT on my dog, but I would like some guidance with my horse. Thanks so much!!! :D
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Nettle
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Re: Clicker Training for Horses

Post by Nettle »

It would be brilliant. Use a target stick from the get-go, and then you have complete control of where he puts his head. As you and he are very new together, I would suggest use the clicker to move and place his head but avoid touching it where he is nervous until he is generally more relaxed.

I wanted to clcker-train a certain horse I know, but as he is very food-oriented I wasn't sure about charging the clicker, because I didn't want him to treat-mug. I was advised to go straight into target work and not to charge the clicker with this particular horse. Unfortunately, the owner withdrew permission before I could get started.
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Suzette
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Re: Clicker Training for Horses

Post by Suzette »

Thanks Nettle! Very helpful! :D

I too was wondering about charging the clicker on a horse. They get so darn mouthy and pushy where food and hands are concerned. :lol:

But once he becomes more relaxed and understand the clicker, how would you proceed? I guess I'm little confused in that I want him to initiate the action that allows me to touch him around his head and ears and get clicked for it, but I'm not sure exactly how to accomplish this. Am I being clear as mud?? :lol:

I don't know why I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this. I'm sure once it's spelled out for me it will make perfect sense, but right now? confusion! :?
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JudyN
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Re: Clicker Training for Horses

Post by JudyN »

We need photos, then all will become clear :wink:

I had to google 'buckskin' to see what colour it was, and it seems it's what the English would call dun. I love dun horses!
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Nettle
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Re: Clicker Training for Horses

Post by Nettle »

Important extra - when you use the target stick, hold it as far away from your body as you can, so you don't encourage him to target your body and flatten you. Same with the treat hand - hold well away from your body and ask him to take one step back before he takes the treat. I would also use a mouth noise rather than a clicker - saves needing three hands.

I would say get him to touch the stick with his nose, then to nose-touch it wherever you hold it. He should become more accepting of your hand near his head by easy stages, and this also teaches him click=you have done that right. Then if it were me, I'd be touching neck and head with my hand where he was happy to be touched, click and reward, and over time move my hand closer to the scaredy parts of his head, retreating at any sign of discomfiture. If anyone has a better way please do chime in! :)
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jacksdad
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Re: Clicker Training for Horses

Post by jacksdad »

Suzette wrote:I too was wondering about charging the clicker on a horse.
charging the clicker is simply building an association using classical conditioning. taking something with no meaning (the clicker) and giving in meaning (click = opportunity for reinforcement). The process is not species specific, but it is individual specific. for example if the animal is sound senstive you would need to take that into account, but beyond that the process is the same for dog, horse, cat etc.

There is a growing opinion that charging the clicker isn't strictly necessary. food for thought.
Suzette wrote:But once he becomes more relaxed and understand the clicker, how would you proceed? I guess I'm little confused in that I want him to initiate the action that allows me to touch him around his head and ears and get clicked for it, but I'm not sure exactly how to accomplish this. Am I being clear as mud?? :lol:
you could completely forget the clicker and just go strait classical counter conditioning. hand moving around means good things. hand getting closer means good things. hand touching me means good things.

classical conditioning tags along when using a clicker, but classical conditioning doesn't require the horse do anything, the presents of the hand and hand moving closer and hand touching all cause good things to happen.
Suzette wrote:I don't know why I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this. I'm sure once it's spelled out for me it will make perfect sense, but right now? confusion! :?
because while the training principles are the same for a horse, cat, dog, goldfish, there are differences in species for what is a reinforcer is (I dare say a good game of tug or fetch probably isn't a reinforcer for a horse), what motivates a horse, what scares a horse, how do horses think etc that affect how you apply the principles.

Somethings will be identical to dog training, something will need to be "tweaked" for horses. you are going to have fun, fun, fun.
Suzette
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Re: Clicker Training for Horses

Post by Suzette »

Thanks everyone! :D I appreciate your input. And I like the idea of a mouth noise vs. the actual clicker Nettle, mostly because I have yet to find that elusive third hand that would come in so handy when clicker training! :lol:

I also appreciate your thoughts on this Jacksdad - very helpful! :D

It all makes perfect sense when I see it written out. I don't know why I'm over-thinking this with him, but I tend to do this with my animals versus other peoples where I tend to be more matter-of-fact. :) But it's so nice to have you guys to turn to and get your thoughts and bounce ideas off of! :D

I have pictures of Dakota on my phone, but have yet to figure out how to get them from phone to this post. :? :lol: I'll work on it. :D
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Horace's Mum
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Re: Clicker Training for Horses

Post by Horace's Mum »

Just logged on (after a lengthy break!) and saw your post. I have 2 young fell ponies who are clicker trained, have been since 5 months. They are quite different to work with than my high drive, mature (and deaf!) dog is, and each of them uses the clicker in a slightly different way, but it is great fun to work with them this way, and has really opened up our communication. I rarely don't have treats in my pocket when with them, because they will "ask" me to work through things with the clicker when they need to ie if we are out walking and something scary crops up, they will turn to me, look back, and turn back to me to ask me to let them know if it is ok. Then I can use my clicker (I use a mouth sound) to reinforce them looking at it again, which quickly turns into stepping towards and eventually targetting (if possible) the scary thing, and then it never really is an issue again - in fact with a recent meeting with a "dead" wheelie bin - on it's side on a windy day - once we had thoroughly de-scared the first one they were seeking out the others to target, even when they looked different and had moving lids etc.

The first thing I did with the clicker was STOP my colt from mouthing. Typical boy, he explores the world through his mouth, but was getting out of hand. It took about 3mins for him to learn that "look away" = click = treat. This is the first and most important lesson in equine CT. Sometimes it needs to initially be taught behind a barrier so if they become frustrated before they learn the game, you can simply step out of harms way. Goss now knows without a doub that a) he gets nothing from me if he is touching me or in my space and b) he gets nothing without a click, ever. I can be less strict about random treating with Oya, but it upsets Goss too much if I bend the rules so his "treats" are always after me finding something, anything, to click first. Usually that is simply standing quietly.

Once you have the basic manners, you can work on expecting them to actually step away from you for their reward. This makes it even safer, because you are always bringing the reward to them, they never come to you for it.

Following on from Nettle, I think I would either teach her to target, and hold the target position, so that you can then ask her to target and gradually move your hand where you would like it - but this could be fairly longwinded to work through by the time you have taught the clicker game, taught a target, then taught to maintain the touch to target - or if you want to speed the process up then work with a headcollar and rope. Hold the rope gently, not tight, you want to allow her to move away if she is uncomfortable, but the aim is to reward each step of your hand moving. Stand beside her and move your hand up towards her face. Stop still the second she moves away, hold the position until she is relaxed again, then click, move hand, and reward. Repeat, always stopping the second she shows any discomfort, but don't click until she relaxes again. If you get your hand up further than the last time without her moving, then click before she moves - you shouldn't need to see a reaction beyond the first couple of clicks if you are subtle enough. Move by millimetres, not centimetres :-) Very very gradually you will find her relaxing as your hand moves towards her, which can then develop into touch, and then move up the face, but start from no touching every single time, because the removal of your hand after the click is probably as strong a reinforcement as the food at the moment.

If you want to turn it round, you could teach her to touch your hand herself, be very very clear on boundaries and DON'T use the same cue as for anything else! I did this with the headcollars, basically teaching mine to run towards me and put their own headcollars on purely through shaping. For Goss it was just a game, for Oya it was more important because she had never been comfortable with being caught, but doing it this way gives her the opportunity to tell me when she is ready to be caught - even now she will usually come straight over but sometimes she just needs time to think. If I move towards her she will turn or even walk away, but if I just wait, headcollar open and give her the "head in" cue then when she feels ready she puts her head straight in quite happily.

Thinking about it, this may be a useful game for you to play too, so that she can clearly tell you when she is ready to be handled and teach her that she does have a choice and you will listen. The process of doing up headcollars also helps her to accept hands around the different parts of her head - or it can do if you want it to!!
jacksdad
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Re: Clicker Training for Horses

Post by jacksdad »

an up coming CAAB Chat will be discussing horses. http://caabchats.com/

I will post as more info becomes available.

oh and nice to have you back HM
Suzette
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Re: Clicker Training for Horses

Post by Suzette »

Thank you so much for your input on this HM!

I have made some pretty good strides with Dakota in the last few weeks and he is now putting his head down for the halter and I can touch him all over his face and ears most of the time. (Every now and then he will still throw his head up and away from me, but nine times out of ten, he will now be calm and accepting of my hands and the halter.) My newest challenge is the bridle. He doesn't mind the bit at all (I ride him in a gentle snaffle) but he really does not like the brow band going up over his face and over his ears. If I remove the brow band, I can put the bridle on and he is fine (I am beginning to think he might have been roughly ear twitched in the past, but that is just a guess) Anyway, we are working on that right now. While he is doing better, I think I will use your tips on CT'ing to help this process along. :)
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Horace's Mum
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Re: Clicker Training for Horses

Post by Horace's Mum »

Thanks Jacksdad!

Sounds like good progress, the only thing I would suggest is maybe find a bodyworker of some kind (osteo, chiro, physio, something like that) to check the head, poll and neck area in particular. It is possible that if she hasn't been ear twitched that she has been taught to tie by being tied to a solid object and left to fight, which can leave lasting evidence and might make it sensitive or even sore to touch around that area. If you don't know her history then tbh it would be worth looking into it as a full body check to make sure there is no physical reason for her to object to progressing.
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