telegraph article

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telegraph article

Post by gwd » Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:16 pm ... essed.html

Worth a read.......... the comments as well.

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Re: telegraph article

Post by Nettle » Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:01 pm

RM is a sad disappointment as a dog 'behaviourist' . He doesn't 'get it' at all :roll: But as the comments show, he's in great company. Total ignorance, malice and stupidity never stopped anyone having an opinion (that's the comment writers not RM. He's simply stuck in the dark ages and doesn't know it).

Every article I read that slams reward-based traing doesn't 'get it' either.

One person at a time. Change the world one person at a time. By Jove it's an uphill task. But not thankless - every dog trained by reward would thank us if it knew.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog


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Re: telegraph article

Post by DianeLDL » Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:21 pm

Thanks for the article. It was quite interesting and shows that there are still those who see Positive training as permissive and allowing anything without limits. This is BS as we train them not to do things but substituting what is permissible.

Anyway, our radio here on Albuquerque has been promoting CM who will be appearing at one of the casinos around ABQ. :twisted:
Every time I hear the radio ad, I feel sick. They make him sound like the greatest thing and that every dog owner needs to be there. I realize that it is his promoters writing the ads, but it just makes me cringe. :twisted: :twisted:

Can't wait for him to leave and ads to be done with. But, it doesn't make it good for our poor dogs on town. :shock:

Sandy, Chihuahua mix b. 12/20/09

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Re: telegraph article

Post by jacksdad » Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:45 pm

Nettle wrote:Every article I read that slams reward-based training doesn't 'get it' either.
"We" are soooooo afraid of rewarding "bad" behavior that people just seem to have mental blocks around the idea that you are rewarding not "bad" but wanted behavior. that the more the wanted behavior is rewarded (technically reinforced) the more likely the wanted behavior will be what you see, not the unwanted.

This seems to be the tripping point for most people. that leap of "faith" that they aren't rewarding the bad behavior.

The other issue I have noticed is actually very ironic. the punishment based people often accuse us of coddling and being anthropomorphic, but yet do not see how anthropomorphic they are. in some cases, FAR more than "we" ever are. The ultimate example is when a dog doesn't respond as expected. "the dog doesn't respect you". really? dogs understand complex and subjective concepts like respect? who knew.

on the other hand, positive trainers tend to talk in terms of did the under understand what you asked? Did you up requirements too quickly? was the dog startled, afraid, nervous etc far
Nettle wrote:One person at a time. Change the world one person at a time. By Jove it's an uphill task. But not thankless - every dog trained by reward would thank us if it knew.
I have to remind my self of this all the time. But at times when people are still waffling I feel like I am battling for the welfare of the dog and it's hard to stay focused and accept people where they are in their own journey. sometimes you just want to yell "are you nuts, why would you do such a thing to your dog". But that isn't how you win people away from punishment based training.

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