This is quite a difficult post for me, given how far me and Horus have come, but I am struggling right now and could do with some support. There isn't anyone around here who really understands, lovely doggy people but not people who have had a difficult rescue dog.
We have been together now for 6 months, and I really thought we had cracked the major issues, in particular charging at me and other people except when he is genuinely scared or doesn't understand the situation, but then I can just take him out of that situation or wait until he calms down (depending on how stressed he is). He hadn't misbehaved with other people more than 2-3 times in the last couple of months, in fact since i took his muzzle off. He had been brilliant with me, until this week the last time he charged me was a month ago and the time before that was about a month too, both times I knew why. He was doing fantastically at agility, very focussed. we had also been getting better with other dogs, almost walking past them without crouching.
However, the last 2 weeks it has all gone wrong. I am in tears as I write this because I just don't know what to do. He has started getting quite aggressive towards other dogs when we meet them on walks, although he is better when he is on his long line and they are loose. He has acted aggressively towards strangers approaching him, sometimes I can see he didn't see them coming, but other times he sees them, goes into a crouch, hackles go up and I know he is going to go for them if they come too close. This isn't every time, but I don't know why he does it.
He doesn't watch me as well as he used to. Keeps running off during agility and I have to wait until he decides to visit the other dogs and someone catches him because he ignores the recall or simply doesn't look long enough to see it.
The worst bit is that he has gone for me 3 times this week and once last week. I don't know why. Each time I have just been stroking/making a fuss of him, like I do many times every day, and he just turns. He jumps up and grabs onto the front of my clothing. He never used to use his teeth, just jump and make a lot of noise. And he used to run at you, but now he just jumps straight up. I stand and don't back down but don't move my hands either (in that frame of mind he thinks you are going to hit him), he looks at me, tail drops, hackles go down then he wants cuddles as if nothing has happened. I usually ask him to do something like sit, then stroke him a couple of times and move on. Today I admit I slammed the door in front of him and left the house because I can't cope. (Can I just say that he wasn't upset by that, he didn't hear it slam, it just closed as far as he was concerned, but i am being honest about it so you know how upset I am. I wouldn't hurt him. I can't even if i wanted to, if I raise a hand he would really go for me.)
The only thing I can think of is that he hasn't had as much attention in the last 2 weeks because I have been ill. Would that be enough to set him back so far? Or has he hit the teenage years of his second puppyhood? Or is he just challenging me again now that he feels really at home? Or is some evil force taking my beautiful boy over? I am terrified he will hurt someone again, or really hurt me - I am on my own with him. I desparately want to trust him, but every time just as I start to feel comfortable he will do something else. Please don't misunderstand me, I am not about to send him back to the dogstrust, but I do desparately need some support from someone. I know some of you guys have been through similar situations so will understand. Is it just his history of mistreatment and lack of socialisation making it so hard for him to trust me enough not to attack me?
Need some support from the guys that know us...
Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost
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Horace's Mum
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Hi Horace's mum, I'm so sorry I cant offer you any advice, but my heart goes out to you and to Horus, truly it does I can tell from your post how upset you are. Does the dogstrust have its own behaviourists? I always thought that you had help from them in difficult situations like this. (((Hugs))) Claudia x
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katowaggytail
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- Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:37 am
You've come so far and in a short space of time, I can;t remember how old Horus is now... maybe it's teenage hoolisms, maybe he's seeing how far he can push you now. I'm no expert you need Emm and Nettle, but prehaps back to basic training? It's sooo hard when you have no one to talk to, no one that really understands what you and Horus are going through. I may be a tad useless on the advice front, but I am good at listening, even via the net! and I know there are lots of others out there who are the same, and lots of others going through similar to you.
Have heart we will get you there.
Fi x
Have heart we will get you there.
Fi x
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Ocelot0411
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- Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 7:30 am
Hi Horace's mum. This is just to say how much I sympathise with what you're going through at the moment, it must be so tough. I can understand your upset and don't think that slamming a door or two is an overreaction at all. You are only human and its very difficult not to be emotional about it, as stupid though it may sound it feels a bit like betrayal when your dog goes for you like this. Even though once our brains kick in to action we can think about it logically and start to think why it might of happended. Our first response, whether we like it or not, is emotional. That's because we are human so don't beat yourself up over it.
I know there are times when I have been sooooo close to losing my rag with Ellie (not a rescue) but it has never happened and never will.
In my view dogs are just like children, wonderful, loveable, greatly rewarding, but sometimes incredibly difficult and heartbreaking when despite your best efforts it all seems to go wrong.
As for advise, I am afraid I am out of my depth here. I have never had a rescue so will have to live that to the likes of Em, Mattie and Nettle, but I can do moral support. Please don't torture yourself over this, you have done and are still doing a great job with that little guy and I am sure you can get through this. I am with you all the way.
I know there are times when I have been sooooo close to losing my rag with Ellie (not a rescue) but it has never happened and never will.
In my view dogs are just like children, wonderful, loveable, greatly rewarding, but sometimes incredibly difficult and heartbreaking when despite your best efforts it all seems to go wrong.
As for advise, I am afraid I am out of my depth here. I have never had a rescue so will have to live that to the likes of Em, Mattie and Nettle, but I can do moral support. Please don't torture yourself over this, you have done and are still doing a great job with that little guy and I am sure you can get through this. I am with you all the way.
))))))))))))))))))))))))))))HUG((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
Hang on in there, HM. You have a teenage dog, a disabled dog and a dog scared spitless because YOU, his protector, his tower of strength, have been ill. Change identities and become him for a moment and see how he is feeling (a useful way to start with any troubling behaviour is to become the dog).
No more agility until you are through this. It is over-exciting him and he has not the coping strategies.
Let him meet dogs he knows and likes, and you get yourself between any others and him and big-body-language them away. Same with strange people. They MUST NOT be allowed to approach him and certainly not reach out to him. You keep them away. Be pro-active and anticipate.
His deafness frustrates him. He doesn't know he is deaf, but neither does he know how to communicate with you - so he grabs hold of you, like a child would. He cannot hear himself bark or growl. You don't have a tail and mobile ears.
Teenage years are tempestuous even with a normal dog. Deaf dogs will never be what hearing dogs will. They start life at a huge disadvantage, and other dogs know. This makes him scared.
We'll support you all the way, but you might like to find a sympatico trainer who has experience with disabled dogs to help you day by day.
Meanwhile, be aware of his rage, frustration and fear. He doesn't need comforting - he needs to feel SAFE. If this means distancing yourself from him a little and being sparing with your cuddles while remaining fair and interacting as much as before, so be it. Your position now isn't the loving Mummy - it is the invincible protector.
apologies: didn't mean that all in Bold.
Hang on in there, HM. You have a teenage dog, a disabled dog and a dog scared spitless because YOU, his protector, his tower of strength, have been ill. Change identities and become him for a moment and see how he is feeling (a useful way to start with any troubling behaviour is to become the dog).
No more agility until you are through this. It is over-exciting him and he has not the coping strategies.
Let him meet dogs he knows and likes, and you get yourself between any others and him and big-body-language them away. Same with strange people. They MUST NOT be allowed to approach him and certainly not reach out to him. You keep them away. Be pro-active and anticipate.
His deafness frustrates him. He doesn't know he is deaf, but neither does he know how to communicate with you - so he grabs hold of you, like a child would. He cannot hear himself bark or growl. You don't have a tail and mobile ears.
Teenage years are tempestuous even with a normal dog. Deaf dogs will never be what hearing dogs will. They start life at a huge disadvantage, and other dogs know. This makes him scared.
We'll support you all the way, but you might like to find a sympatico trainer who has experience with disabled dogs to help you day by day.
Meanwhile, be aware of his rage, frustration and fear. He doesn't need comforting - he needs to feel SAFE. If this means distancing yourself from him a little and being sparing with your cuddles while remaining fair and interacting as much as before, so be it. Your position now isn't the loving Mummy - it is the invincible protector.
apologies: didn't mean that all in Bold.
I can't add to Nettle's advice apart from a vet check, sometimes a sudden change in behaviour means there is something wrong and he can't tell you.
Where do you Live? Hopefully someone will live near to you to give you more support.
Where do you Live? Hopefully someone will live near to you to give you more support.
[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/PIXIE.jpg][img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/Nethertumbleweed/th_PIXIE.jpg[/img][/url]
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Horace's Mum
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Cheers guys. You have me in tears again, but because it is so nice to know there are people who understand and want to help.
Mattie, I am in Scotland, there are very few people around who are good trainers, and I think we have the best! I am thinking of taking him to the vets, but I wanted to see if a few days of changing tactics will help. Otherwise it will be vets on Monday.
Ocelot, thank you, I know you have been frustrated with Ellie at times, and it helps to be allowed to feel emotional by other people! I would never hurt him, but sometimes I do feel that I just cannot take any more from him. As long as I can walk away, I will cope somehow.
Kato, Horus is 3 1/2 years now, but he has been through a definite second puppyhood in the time I have had him (common in rescues apparently). Plus the fact he never really grew up anyway, for various reasons, that why I wondered whether this was like a teenage strop. You are not useless with the advice that you are able to give, I always listen to you, but I agree you are very good at listening! So thank you for being there for us.
Nettle, you put into words the feelings I had about all this. I know I have not been the same for him, which is why I am desparately trying to correct my management.
I always put myself between him and the other dog,but he lunges out from beside me to bark. I don't want to keep him on a really short lead because I don't want to give him a reason to think there is something to worry about, but I can't stop him or distract him except by physically dragging him away. If I spot the dog soon enough then very occasionally I can hold his attention long enough for it to go past without him barking, but it is harder and harder to do this. He is fine if they are both off the lead, he just wants to play.
With people, I don't let anyone approach him (they wouldn't want to anyway if they had half a brain when they see him bark like that!) but sometimes people put a hand out before I can stop them. He is fine with people I send him over to see, and fine with people he knows, although I am always aware of his language and call him away if I think he is getting wary.
Do you really think the grabbing my clothes is just that, and not a failed attempt to bite my chest? He gets very close, and last night actually tried to run up my body and nearly succeeded in getting my face. I know he is trying to tell me he is scared, which is why I just stand and talk him down without being aggressive back (well I try!), and then I ask him to sit, tell him he's a good boy and walk away.
Do you agree that it is a second teenage? Or could be?
And finally, I have distanced myself, I wait for him to approach me, give him minimum fuss but I still talk to him so he can see I am not ignoring him.
As far as agility, he is getting so excited because we have moved up into the big class, there are lots of strange dogs and he is in a big open field off his lead for the only time he does not have his longline attached. It is all rather exciting, but he still loves the agility, we have just had to step back a lot and go back to doing one obstacle at a time with lots of treats to keep him focussed on me (we were doing whole mini courses before). I knew he would run off, it is what I am most scared of, its just bad timing that this all happened at the same time.
And thanks for putting it in bold, it made me listen harder!!
Mattie, I am in Scotland, there are very few people around who are good trainers, and I think we have the best! I am thinking of taking him to the vets, but I wanted to see if a few days of changing tactics will help. Otherwise it will be vets on Monday.
Ocelot, thank you, I know you have been frustrated with Ellie at times, and it helps to be allowed to feel emotional by other people! I would never hurt him, but sometimes I do feel that I just cannot take any more from him. As long as I can walk away, I will cope somehow.
Kato, Horus is 3 1/2 years now, but he has been through a definite second puppyhood in the time I have had him (common in rescues apparently). Plus the fact he never really grew up anyway, for various reasons, that why I wondered whether this was like a teenage strop. You are not useless with the advice that you are able to give, I always listen to you, but I agree you are very good at listening! So thank you for being there for us.
Nettle, you put into words the feelings I had about all this. I know I have not been the same for him, which is why I am desparately trying to correct my management.
I always put myself between him and the other dog,but he lunges out from beside me to bark. I don't want to keep him on a really short lead because I don't want to give him a reason to think there is something to worry about, but I can't stop him or distract him except by physically dragging him away. If I spot the dog soon enough then very occasionally I can hold his attention long enough for it to go past without him barking, but it is harder and harder to do this. He is fine if they are both off the lead, he just wants to play.
With people, I don't let anyone approach him (they wouldn't want to anyway if they had half a brain when they see him bark like that!) but sometimes people put a hand out before I can stop them. He is fine with people I send him over to see, and fine with people he knows, although I am always aware of his language and call him away if I think he is getting wary.
Do you really think the grabbing my clothes is just that, and not a failed attempt to bite my chest? He gets very close, and last night actually tried to run up my body and nearly succeeded in getting my face. I know he is trying to tell me he is scared, which is why I just stand and talk him down without being aggressive back (well I try!), and then I ask him to sit, tell him he's a good boy and walk away.
Do you agree that it is a second teenage? Or could be?
And finally, I have distanced myself, I wait for him to approach me, give him minimum fuss but I still talk to him so he can see I am not ignoring him.
As far as agility, he is getting so excited because we have moved up into the big class, there are lots of strange dogs and he is in a big open field off his lead for the only time he does not have his longline attached. It is all rather exciting, but he still loves the agility, we have just had to step back a lot and go back to doing one obstacle at a time with lots of treats to keep him focussed on me (we were doing whole mini courses before). I knew he would run off, it is what I am most scared of, its just bad timing that this all happened at the same time.
And thanks for putting it in bold, it made me listen harder!!
Vet check is a good idea.
I cannot say for sure what went on in his head when he grabbed you as I did not see it, so while I hope my take on it is right, please do not put your face and neck at any risk. He needs to know that this is unacceptable even if it is understandable. It is very easy for an excitable sort to get frustrated, much as children (and even adults who cannot express themselves adequately) will lash out. Whatever the motivation, it can hurt and even do bad damage, so please please be careful.
He can do agility in your garden, and invite some doggie friends around up until he has calmed down enough to go back to "big" agility. Maybe move him back down to his comfort-zone grade for a while.
The 3 and a half year old adolescent is one of the reasons I am so opposed to early neutering. He may be stuck in adolescence for ever (lucky you). So we have to cope with it. You are a very astute DogMamma and you know the ways to handle him. Unfortunately we all get ill from time to time and it means that we take our eyes off the ball and the dog reverts to previous behaviour (children too).
Regarding the lunging at other dogs, you ARE allowed to short-lead quick-march away from any likely situation. Pre-empt rather than react if you can. If only I could show you.
it is a knack to keep him back from the other dog and use all the available space at your disposal to keep a distance between them (including telling the other dog owner to CALL HIM BACK PLEASE) but so much easier to demonstrate than describe. People say OH 
when I show them.
Please don't feel despondent. This is all part of the wonderful art of being a Dogmamma.
We're all thinking of you.
I cannot say for sure what went on in his head when he grabbed you as I did not see it, so while I hope my take on it is right, please do not put your face and neck at any risk. He needs to know that this is unacceptable even if it is understandable. It is very easy for an excitable sort to get frustrated, much as children (and even adults who cannot express themselves adequately) will lash out. Whatever the motivation, it can hurt and even do bad damage, so please please be careful.
He can do agility in your garden, and invite some doggie friends around
up until he has calmed down enough to go back to "big" agility. Maybe move him back down to his comfort-zone grade for a while.The 3 and a half year old adolescent is one of the reasons I am so opposed to early neutering. He may be stuck in adolescence for ever (lucky you). So we have to cope with it. You are a very astute DogMamma and you know the ways to handle him. Unfortunately we all get ill from time to time and it means that we take our eyes off the ball and the dog reverts to previous behaviour (children too).
Regarding the lunging at other dogs, you ARE allowed to short-lead quick-march away from any likely situation. Pre-empt rather than react if you can. If only I could show you.
it is a knack to keep him back from the other dog and use all the available space at your disposal to keep a distance between them (including telling the other dog owner to CALL HIM BACK PLEASE) but so much easier to demonstrate than describe. People say OH when I show them.Please don't feel despondent. This is all part of the wonderful art of being a Dogmamma.
We're all thinking of you.
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Horace's Mum
- Posts: 1129
- Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:10 pm
Nettle, don't worry, I am VERY careful not to get my face too close!! Just never thought of it as being a way to hold me, not sure that this was but he does sometimes just take my clothes in his mouth as he walks past.
We had a good day yesterday, 2 good walks and a bit of time apart for us both to chill out. No growling or charging from him, and I managed to say a brief goodnight when he was in bed, and stroked him to sleep from my bed (he likes that, I did watch him very carefully for any sign that he didn't want it.)
He has started "talking" to me again vocally, which he only does when he is happy and hasn't done for the last few days. As we speak, he has just shoved the laptop out of the way wanting a cuddle and then dumped his toy in my lap, again something he hasn't done for several days.
Thank you all of you for the support, I needed to hear that it isn't the end of the world, it is just a blip, and I am sure there are many more to come, but I feel like we are getting back on track together. One day at a time, methinks.
We had a good day yesterday, 2 good walks and a bit of time apart for us both to chill out. No growling or charging from him, and I managed to say a brief goodnight when he was in bed, and stroked him to sleep from my bed (he likes that, I did watch him very carefully for any sign that he didn't want it.)
He has started "talking" to me again vocally, which he only does when he is happy and hasn't done for the last few days. As we speak, he has just shoved the laptop out of the way wanting a cuddle and then dumped his toy in my lap, again something he hasn't done for several days.
Thank you all of you for the support, I needed to hear that it isn't the end of the world, it is just a blip, and I am sure there are many more to come, but I feel like we are getting back on track together. One day at a time, methinks.
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Ocelot0411
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katowaggytail
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