'dog ghettos’ telegraph article

[gwd]

Society is creating 'dog ghettos’, Kennel Club warns

Dogs have always been considered man’s best friend, but according to campaigners they are no longer being treated as such



The Kennel Club has warned that dogs are being increasingly “marginalised” in society, and treated as a “nuisance” that must be controlled and restricted by the authorities.

The organisation has spoken out about the spread of “draconian” restrictions on dogs and their owners which are being introduced by local councils across the country.

Under the rising number of “dog control orders”, the animals are being banned from large areas of parkland, beaches and other public spaces on which they have traditionally been able to exercise.

The effect, according to the Kennel Club, has been to “ghettoise” the animals, pushing them out of some neighbourhoods and forcing them into increasingly congested, designated areas.

Caroline Kisko, the club’s secretary, said: “In many areas, especially in the cities, dogs are no longer accepted as they once were. They are frowned upon and considered a nuisance and marginalised. There is a general loss to wider society in all of this.
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discuss!

[jodieohdoh]

Sounds familiar. The local town council banned dogs from almost all the parks in the town, and technically we're banned from the beach between April and October. We have one large dog park in the middle of town for which I'm extremely grateful, but I can't help but feel that the people who were causing the nuisance (not controlling their dogs, not picking up after them) are unlikely to obey the byelaws and are still going to be using the parks. It's people like me, who take measures to control their dogs and who pick up after them who are suffering from these measures. Not to mention, the parks are basically deserted for the 10 months of the year that the weather is rubbish! Dog owners are the only people who use them!

I do understand the non-dog-loving public's urge to limit dogs. A lot of dog owners think because their dog will eventually come back to them (after harassing a pedestrian - he's only playing - or chasing the heck out of a cyclist) they have the dog under control. A friend of mine is terrified of dogs and is constantly being told by dog owners "Oh don't worry, he's friendly" after it's jumped up on her and scared the living daylights out of her. I think a large part of what we need to do as dog owners is to publicise the fact that we are in favour of owners taking responsibility for their dogs. Maybe Dogs Trust and RSPCA etc could join forces in putting together some high-profile educational information. THe dog-loving community could be pro-active instead of defensive. Just some initial thoughts in response to the article

[JudyN]

Round here there are a few beach areas where dogs can go all year round, which is fair enough, and I can't think of any parks (apart from children's playgrounds) where dogs are banned. I wish there were more dog-friendly pubs and cafes though - I think pubs & cafes in popular dog-walking areas are missing a trick, particularly in winter, when almost everyone walking near them has a dog.

What really niggles me is the people who say that dogs should always be on leads in all public places. Have they any idea what behavioural issues would result if the dogs were never let off to run & play? Presumably not.

[jodieohdoh]

Judy, I think that's part of the problem. They don't understand us (and don't want to, I suspect) and a lot of us don't understand them. Misinformation and scare stories get more clicks and sell more newspapers than the true story.

[Nettle]

It's lazy legislation, isn't it? Rather than do something directly to educate the few people and dogs who actually are causing problems, hide behind a desk and order ALL dogs to be restricted or banned.

Many slag off the KC but in fact their publicity/campaigning work is superb - we can contact them any time about any unfair proposals and they WILL fight on our behalf ('we' and 'our' as in general public, not KC members). For instance, a couple of years ago, a local postal centre sent letters to ALL dwellings in their area that owned dogs threatening to stop delivering and directly accusing each householder of having a dog/dogs that had been classified as a danger a few letters flew about and it all stopped.

Similarly, in Jasper/JudyN country, there was a local legislative move to close nearly all laybys (small parking areas) into the New Forest and so restrict dog walkers to a few areas only. Dogs are already restricted in the bird nesting season, which is sensible. The locals fought back hard and won - but the legislation ever so nearly sneaked through because it was deliberately kept low profile.

For the benefit of our non-UK readers, the New Forest was created by William the conqueror as a hunting area for royalty only: it's taken the Commoners (a title of pride meaning local Forest inhabitants) a long time and a few high-profile murders (eg William Rufus) to be allowed freely to go into the Forest and they ain't backing down for a few bureaucrats!

Where I live, dogs are banned on beaches all summer. I think this could be time-restricted for more fairness, say after this time and before that time, so people could still go early and late. Funny thing: the litter left by people is way more dangerous (broken glass, used hypodermics) than anything left by a dog.

Other places there are numerical restrictions - no more than X dogs at a time. I am down to three dogs now, but I have friends who walk large numbers of dogs, all beautifully under control - why should they be penalised for those who can't even control ONE dog?


And then there are the dog-haters - after every incident involving an 'attack' by dogs (totally foreseeable and preventable, but wasn't) there are extremists saying dogs should always be muzzled (in the house and out) and always on a lead, nobody should have more than one dog ad inf ad naus.

They don't understand us (and don't want to, I suspect) and a lot of us don't understand them. Misinformation and scare stories get more clicks and sell more newspapers than the true story

So true.

[lucyandbella]

living in California I do feel anger and annoyance at all the laws governing where I cannot take my dog. I hate that if I want to take my dog to the beach I have to go all the way to Carmel...a nice place but hours from the closest beach to us. And be careful of sites for beaches that claim they are dog friendly only to find out "only in the parking lot" once you have driven there .

Hiking with my dogs sounds nice, I have yet to find a trail or park that allows dogs, there is a small mountain close to home in my hometown, and the top gets snow (my dog have never seen snow) I would love to take them there but once again dogs aren't allowed. Again, in parking lots but I guess you are meant to leave them in the car while you hike? It's ridiculous!

But it's not just dogs. My sister is a horse enthusiast and does enjoy packing with her horse...now some parks are not allowing horses because the damage they do to the environment. I would think driving a camper into these parks does more damage but what do I know. My family and I consider leaving California but by the sound of it stupid laws are everywhere .

And according to legislation I'm only allowed 2 dogs in college town (most towns allow three per household but that's it), my dogs must be microchipped (they don't enforce this but if your dog is impounded they require a microchip before it leaves), oh and dogs must be neutered if not you have to apply for a breeders license and pay fees and also pay a more expensive yearly registrations fee....but if your dog is ever impounded you can't get it back until its neutered (I'm assuming this is if you never got the breeders license like you were suppose to). And my dogs should be kept on a 4 foot lead. Of course these things aren't really enforced but its still annoying.

This is why there are "dog parks" in California, because our dogs can't be off leash legally anywhere else. And the dog parks are usually very small spaces here and then put in 20 dogs with owners chatting on the phone or with one another and problems start with the dogs. Luckily I can let my dogs off most places though my park back home does constantly ticket people who are caught with their dog off leash in the huge field there, even if no one else is there but you and your dog.

[Ari_RR]

Here is southern Connecticut we have leash laws, most of the beaches are off limits to dogs except winter month... I've never even heard of a food establishment that would allow dogs inside.

That said - personal 2 cents: legislature and rules are one thing, reality is another. Even if dogs were allowed off leash everywhere, I wouldn't be spending more time in crowded places among humans and dogs. In fact, I would probably be spending less time there. At least now I know that when I take Ari downtown, the odds are that we won't be running into loose dogs, and that's a good thing to me. Allowing unrestricted access will likely mean all kind of unruly dogs everywhere, running up to unfriendly humans or kids..... Plus, the idea of cleaning up after dogs has not yet been embraced by all owners...

In short - I limit Ari's off leash time to where there is a lot of space and not many humans/dogs not because of the rules and regulations, but because I think it just makes sense. So, making those rules less restrictive would not have much impact.

[MPbandmom]

Where I live all parks have leash laws. It doesn't mean everybody abides by them, but they are there. I don't have a problem with leash laws. My dog's might, but they can run in the yard and I do things like scootering and lure coursing with them that gives them a chance to run.

I also live fairly close to a dog friendly National Battlefield Park. It was recently rated #4 in a book listing the top 50 places to walk a dog in Northern Virginia. Yet, every time I go there, I am appalled by the amount of dog poo left on or just off the side of the trails. Stepping in dog poo isn't my idea of a good walk. Although it does give my dogs piles picked up towards their Dog Scouts of America Clean up America II badges. They have to find and help carry to the trash recepticle 50 stray piles. I can't help but wonder every time I see the piles and piles left by irresponsible dog owners, how long it will be before we loose this gem of a place to take the dogs?

Tour busses come into this park and they certaintly don't have dogs with them. Can you imagine how horrible it would be to get back onto a tour bus after having trod through dog poo?

There are some dog friendly cafe's around here. They have outside seating and allow people to bring dogs there. Health department regulations forbid any dog other than a service dog to enter a building containing human food products. The only problem I encountered with the one outside cafe that I have been to, is that they don't have service for the outside tables. Fortunately I had a friend along who could go inside and place our order, but the establishment wouldn't have done me much good had I been by myself.

[OnceInAWeil]

I've never even heard of a food establishment that would allow dogs inside.

That one surprises me. Here in Phoenix it's not quite as restrictive. Several dog parks, dogs are allowed at most regular parks including some botanical gardens, and we have lots of eateries with dog-friendly patios. We do have leash laws: 6-foot leash at all times in public. It's not heavily enforced, though...we have some local parks where people regularly let their dogs off leash, and I use a long line a lot of the time.

[Erica]

Here in NC (at least my area) it's much like OIAW and MP say. Technically there's a 6-foot leash law in most public walking areas, but people often don't obey it, either through off-leash dog-ness or flexi leads. I haven't seen a dog on a non-retractable long line besides my own. I checked my town's laws and it seems there's simply a leash law with no defined length, so long lines are okay as long as there isn't a sign saying otherwise. There are lots of cafes and some restaurants that allow dogs outside. The only public place dogs are 100% banned are kids' playgrounds.

I've heard that Nordstrom's are supposed to be dog-friendly, but I've never seen a dog there. Granted, the one we go to is attached to a mall where only service animals are allowed. I do know that hardware stores are normally dog-friendly. I wish book stores were I spend a lot more time in there than other stores.

[abbyneo]

We're lucky enough to live in a very dog-friendly city (Houston). Abby goes basically everywhere with us..and since we have such nice weather pretty much all year long, we can take her to eat with us on patios and such at restaurants. I'm so thankful for that because she looks pit-bull (ish) and we haven't had too many bad experiences, mostly just "big dog" comments. I would be really sad if I lived in a place where I'd have to leave her home all the time. She's always on-leash except for when she goes out to the mailbox with me in the afternoon

For some people it's definitely a "well my kid is the cutest thing in the world so you should think so too" when in reality that kid is a brat. I try to be mindful of that everywhere we go with Abby because I get that not everyone is a dog person..we don't approach anyone and are always super friendly if someone approaches us.

[gwd]

I've heard that Nordstrom's are supposed to be dog-friendly, but I've never seen a dog there. Granted, the one we go to is attached to a mall where only service animals are allowed.

it is dog friendly.......and mine have been there! i'm not a shopper and i don't consider it a hobby like some do (well, unless you count clean run, petco, etc). but we have two rather nice outdoor malls in san diego and both are quite dog friendly. one even has a few poopie bag dispensers scattered around the mall. ......

it's interesting that you mention service dogs. i don't know if it's the same in the uk but there is no licensing or governing body for service dogs. vests can be purchased online. additionally, the american disabilities act prevents anyone from asking as to the nature of a person's disability. sadly, this has led to many people abusing the right of access that is afforded to all service dogs. because much of the us is NOT dog friendly, people abuse the rules and claim that 'fluffy' is a service dog. shame that.

here in san diego we have several dog friendly beaches. during the off season (sept to june) all are off lead. one becomes on lead only from june 15th to labor day. the other 3 are off lead all year round.

state owned parks are not dog friendly but city parks are........but only on lead. there are a number of dog parks but i'm not a fan of those.

restaurants that have patio dining are usually dog friendly provided you do not have to enter the restaurant to access the patio......otherwise health code prohibits it.

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[bendog]

See, being able to walk my dogs off lead is a MASSIVE part of having them for me. I hate having to have them on lead. Because I think it's so important for them to be able to run and sniff. If I am honest, I avoid most public parks, or keep them on lead in them just because they are too busy/too close to roads/too much food waste on the ground. But a lot of the bigger parks have quieter areas so I can just let them off in the quieter parts and keep them on lead where it's busiest. I am fairly lucky in that I live pretty close to lots of farmland/canal/woods etc with public footpaths running through, none of it is particularly beautiful like the Lake District or anything, but its usually pretty empty and the dogs can go off lead and have a decent run, but I appreciate in cities the parks are most people's only option so I wouldn't like to see dogs banned, although I do think for dogs with rubbish recall a few "dog park" type securely fenced spaces would be a good idea and hopefully being the UK they wouldn't get too full of idiot owners, since there are plenty of other walk options.

Obviously fields with livestock (sheep/horses/cattle) ask for dogs to be kept on lead, particuarly with sheep at lambing time, other times of year you can get away with dogs "under close control" which can mean off lead with good recall.

Most beaches have sections that are closed to dogs from May-Sept, but here it's just the most popular areas, so going further along to the less attractive parts of the same beach you can walk dogs all year off lead. As a kid I managed to pick up dog poo on the beach (because it was covered with sand when I was digging) so I am fully in favour of dogs being banned from the beach during summer as unfortunately owners can't be trusted to pick up after their dog.

I HATE when dog poo is left on pavements or in public parks, because like you guys say, it gives us a bad rep and will likely lead to more restrictions.

Almost all pubs allow dogs outside in the beer garden, it's just rarely nice enough weather to sit out there! A few pubs here allow dogs indoors and serve food, but not very many. Dog friendly cafes and shops are even rarer.

However popular dog walking places in UK like the Lake District are much more dog friendly, allow dogs in some cafes, pubs etc (not really seen dogs in posh restaurants!) and there are miles of hills to walk in. Unfortunately the hills are often full of sheep so poppy does have to stay on lead a lot, but when we are usually walking for 4/5 hours at a time in the lakes then she gets worn out enough even being on lead.

I do notice a difference in my dogs behaviour if they have had a while of only being on lead and not having chance to run off lead. We have a garden they can play in, but they never bother.
Dogs are also allowed on virtually all public transport in the UK.

[JudyN]

In the UK it's up to the owners of an establishment whether dogs are allowed inside the building. There's a fair few dog friendly pubs around, by which I mean they allow dogs inside the pub (sometimes in the bar area only - though I know US pubs are different to UK pubs anyway). In my local area we used to have a dog-friendly cafe, and I can take Jasper inside the pet shop and the post office, which has a supply of dog biscuits behind the counter. On one freezing morning when I had to accompany DS2 into town I found I could take Jasper into an independent jewellers, also Robert Dyas (a chain of large hardware stores) and Waterstones (a bookshop chain).

So compared to the US, things are pretty good here. It goes without saying that I regard being able to take Jasper in these places as a privilege, and make sure his behaviour is impeccable as, in the shops in particular, people aren't expecting a big dog to stick his snout into their carrier bags to see what they've bought.

[Suzette]

One of the many reasons we chose to buy a beach home on Hilton Head Island (in South Carolina) was due to their very open and friendly attitude towards dogs. They are welcome on the beach year round (though in the summer, when tourism is at its highest, they cannot be on the beaches between the hours of 10 am and 5 pm, but that's no problem for us since even we don't usually venture onto the beach during those hours in the hot, hot summer! ). The rest of the time, they can be on or off leash, depending on the time of year and time of day.

There are also many restaurants with outdoor seating and almost all of them not only welcome dogs, but will automatically bring them bowls of fresh water and (with owner's permission) a dog biscuit or two. For us, this island is paradise, in large part because of how welcoming they are to dogs. We're hoping to move there permanently in the near future.