Protecting your dog

Get to know other Positively members here.

Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost

Post Reply
Ocelot0411
Posts: 593
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 7:30 am

Protecting your dog

Post by Ocelot0411 »

Hey to those that may remeber me, apologies for such a long time no see, but circumstances changed, have changed again, yada, yada, yada.

Anyhooooo, to my question. I have just moved to a new area where I have discovered that big bull breeds are 'en vogue'. Now those that know me will know that I have no issue with the way the dog looks or it breed, my rule of thumb is I look at the owner; if hoody with big chains I am concerned, if normal looking folk, if 'doggie looking folk' no issue.

However, I do have a MAJOR issue with dogs that roam unsupervised. Add to the aforementioned that these are large bull breeds (guessing American bull dog cross) and I am not happy. If these dogs attack my dog (totally unsupervised) what in the lord's name am I going to do?

Does anyone have any tips? I came across this situation yesterday when I met a large Bull breed cross (about the size of a Dogue de bordeaux / french mastiff) just trotting about totally alone. I have to say it didn't bother us at all, just looked then mossied off, but a quite unnerving experience.

Am I over reacting?
emmabeth
Posts: 8894
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:24 pm
Location: West Midlands
Contact:

Re: Protecting your dog

Post by emmabeth »

You are not overreacting, its bloody scary (btw, nice to see you!!!)


I remember one awful incident down a narrow, dark alley behind some houses when I discovered our path was blocked by the biggest scariest GSD I have ever seen before, or since! Even Rocky decided he ought to shuttup and thats the sort of thing that would normally have him screaming like a banshee and fighting like a fish on a line to get at it... but he knew this guy was Trouble!

We er, backed up.. slowly, and I shouted a lot in a 'happy' (pooing myself) tone of voice 'can someone call this dog back please' and eventually the owner heard and came to find the back gate open and his dog guarding the path... so it had been an accident and he was very apologetic.

What I would have done had we been foolish enough to try to proceed, and the dog attacked..... errrrrr I don't know. A lot of kicking, getting myself bitten etc etc?

I have found that there is a big difference between dogs that are 'normally' left to roam, and dogs that are not and have escaped. The majority of 'left to roam' dogs will keep themselves to themselves and avoid you, particularly if your dog does not 'say' anything. You may well be able to deflect them by 'treat bombing' - ie, lob a handful of tasty treats in a suitable direction to gain more space... Quite a lot will respond to a deep tone of voice telling them to get lost/gerroff/go home etc.

The ones that have escaped and are not normally loose tend to be the trouble causers, and they are often off their heads whizzing about like loonies with their new found freedom (the only two I saw here were out as a pair, a GSD and a Malamute.. rampaging about, they killed a cat and were having a fine ole time!) - try the food thing but be prepared to get your dog behind you to block them from one another and use strong body language and the voice of doom.

If there actually IS a fight, there really is no set rules for what will work - shouting and screaming tends to make things worse, but its often not something you are really in control of. If a dog bites your dog and hangs on, you are probably better off trying to get a firm hold on the dog and secure it than you are trying to get it OFF, pulling and tugging will just tear your dogs skin, so unless a dog grabs yours round the throat, I would be going for immobilisation rather than removal... but rational thought goes out of the window really!

The mega problem is, IF theres a fight and you split them up.. you only have two hands and its nigh on impossible to secure two dogs one handed and stop them getting one another, particularly as the stray dog is almost guaranteed NOT to be wearing a collar!

So.... do whatever you can, get help as soon as you can, and don't listen to old wives tails about sticking your thumb up the attacking dogs bumhole, trust me... you won't and if you did.. it won't work!
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
Ari_RR
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:07 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Protecting your dog

Post by Ari_RR »

emmabeth wrote:The majority of 'left to roam' dogs will keep themselves to themselves and avoid you, particularly if your dog does not 'say' anything.
A pretty big "IF" with some of our dogs..

I know not to get between the fighting dogs. I even know what to do - tie your dog to anything, grab the other dog by hind legs, pull it away (unless like EB says it locked jaws and wouldn't let go).. And yet on every single occasion when Ari's growling contests with other dogs escalated to snapping and trying to get at each other - I found myself separating them, getting between them. So, I agree with EB - you can think this through to the smallest detail and have a perfect plan, but if your dog is attacked - all bets are off, your instincts will likely take over.

So - try to avoid. If you happen to live in off-leash dog infested part of the world, perhaps walk yours early or late, those roaming dogs need to sleep too..
ScarletSci
Posts: 463
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:44 pm

Re: Protecting your dog

Post by ScarletSci »

I don't think you're over reacting either, there have been a lot of dog on dog attacks in my area recently, and my own dog was attacked last year. All of the above advice is excellent, I'm just going to add one thing that I saw my friend do recently that I thought was genius.

My friends dogs were attacked by a an escaped GSD the other week. One dog was bitten, but one friend was thinking fast and as the GSD was running at them, she lifted her labradoodle over the fence and into a kids play area. Since that was gated, there was no way for the other dog to get at her.

So now part of my routine is to keep an eye out for places I could do a similar thing. Walled front gardens on my route (ones without dogs living there! That might make the situation even worse), things like that. I'd rather explain to a neighbour what's going on than see my dog attacked again. Even a corner between two walls where I could put my dog behind me and fend off the attacking dog.

I also always carry my mobile phone with me, the dog warden and the local police station are saved to the memory, and a rape alarm. I don't know whether the alarm would help things, but I hope that the noise might scare off an attacking dog, and draw some help.

I feel a little like a paranoid nutcase outlining all of the above, but once you've had your dog attacked once, I doubt you ever see it as a remote possibility again. I am always scanning for other dogs, and if I see one in the distance that I think might be trouble, I leave and we go somewhere else. If I see a loose dog with no owners, I call the dog warden once we're safely out of the way.
ClareMarsh
Posts: 2008
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:11 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Protecting your dog

Post by ClareMarsh »

I know a lot of people swear by carrying a walking stick. If things get really bad then you can deploy it on the attacking dog but more to the point you can use it to good effect to create space around you, might be worth thinking about :D
Proud owner of Ted and baby Ella
My blog about Ted http://tinkerwolf.com/
Ted's Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/Tinkerwolf
Ted's You Tube Channel http://www.youtube.com/user/TheTedVids
Erica
Posts: 2697
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:35 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Protecting your dog

Post by Erica »

DirectStop is a citronella spray. I have never used it, but some people really highly recommend it. The main thing is to practice whatever your plan if action is, so you can do it in the heat of the moment.
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14
WufWuf
Posts: 1371
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 7:53 am

Re: Protecting your dog

Post by WufWuf »

As others have said the best advice is avoid :wink: .
Ari_RR wrote:grab the other dog by hind legs, pull it away


If you do try this it's best to lift UP not pull back, some dogs will let go when they find that their bum is suddenly in the air but pulling back will just make them grip harder.

Also if you try to kick/hit a dog to get them to let go aim for the belly, (I feel bad even writing that but if your dogs life at risk you need to maximise the effect).

DO NOT stick your hand in at the pointy end as if they get your hand you will have an even harder time keeping them off you dog one handed.

With nicer weather on the way I'm getting anxious about the increase in yobs with dogs that I'll have to deal with and I think I will be investing in a stick even though most of our walks are in urban areas and I don't need one for walking so I will look a prat. I got my MIL a collapsible one a few years ago and I've been thinking of getting one for myself as I could carry it more easily I'm just not sure how good it would be "in combat".
Operant conditioning rocks but classical conditioning rules
Ocelot0411
Posts: 593
Joined: Thu May 24, 2007 7:30 am

Re: Protecting your dog

Post by Ocelot0411 »

Thanks for all the responses and advice folks, I am thinking that the citronella spray would be an idea. If I'm honest I would like something stronger (i.e. pepper spray) but I do not fancy a 5 year term for carrying it (for those outside of the UK its classed as an offensive weapon over here and is very much illegal).

I have just come across the much maligned pooch again today on two seperate occasions during our walk and this will be the third walk I have seen him roaming about on (I am assuming its a him, but can't really see).

Bull breed type pooch who I have nicknamed 'Dog-zilla', is one fierce looking creature. I'm no expert but he's about as close to a pit bull as I think I have seen? He is quite some size though and I'm not really sure how tall a pit bull can get? Anyway I digress.

The first time I saw him he was at a fair distance and there were some lads on the field with a motorcross bike which was quite noisy so I waiting with them until he moved on. He stood and had a good look at us all and he definately saw Ellie but he just looked then eventually trotted off.

On the second time I saw him today Ellie and I were alone heading up a steep hill out of the woods and he appeared from the side of the path about 30 feet above us. I just quietly turned around and walked in the other direction. Again he had a good look at us and was well within striking distance had he have fancied it (that's the closest I've got to him), but again he just stood had a long look at us and then pootled off in the other direction.

So, so far so good. I can't say I am much less intimidated by his presence as he built like the back of a brick out house and could probably swallow me whole, but I am beginning to think that he might not be that interested in us as he certainly had his chance today.

Fortunately Ellie doesn't have a lot to say to other dogs unless they come right up to her and she's quite aloof so she would be extremely unlikely to ever provoke anything.

I have reported his 'flying solo-ness' to both the police and the council and I have been advised that a dog warden will be visiting the area soon. So lets hope he gets spotted, his owners get a slap on the wrists and told to control him or lose him and that will be the end of it.
gwd
Posts: 1958
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:33 pm

Re: Protecting your dog

Post by gwd »

Ocelot0411 wrote:Thanks for all the responses and advice folks, I am thinking that the citronella spray would be an idea. If I'm honest I would like something stronger (i.e. pepper spray) but I do not fancy a 5 year term for carrying it (for those outside of the UK its classed as an offensive weapon over here and is very much illegal).
well then, i'll retract (before i typed) my suggestion of bear spray. i would suggest a sturdy walking stick as sometimes it's weilding can create a safety zone for stray dogs that are not committed to an attack. .......for dogs that are hell bent on an attack they wouldn't be impressed by you waving the stick in front of you.

i also second the pre-planing. having a plan in your mind and going over that plan in your head multiple times helps if you ever have to implement it. there is a good reason that coaches make football players run plays to the point of exhaustion in practice.

i also think it helps to be hyper aware of your environment. .........just like being a defensive driver with your car, .......always work on a exit strategy during your walk.............the story of the gal heaving her dog into the play area is a perfect example! have 'safe zones' mapped out in your head.

we've all been there..........OH and i were at the beach once with boy dog and he was attacked by a pittie. .......poor boy dog was minding his own business and looking at OH waiting for the go out command so he could hit the waves. ......he was blind sided by a pittie. actually so were we. i saw the dog but he wasn't approaching aggressively and we figured he'd continue walking with his owner. OH only thought of protecting his boy and did a body slam tackle that would have been worthy of NFL weekly highlights!

he just threw himself on top of the pittie and pinned him to the ground. honestly i think the element of surprise worked in his favor as the offending dog never figured he was going to be flattened by his targets owner! it was a risky move and OH could have been severely bitten..........this is one of those times when it would have been more prudent to have had a plan. ........

i will admit to a string of very, VERY unladylike words that i directed at the owner.........that man had to listen to my tirade as he was trying to pull his dog from underneath OH who was at the time, pressing the offending dogs head deeply into the sand. i don't know if OH did any serious damage to the other dog......but when your protecting your dog against a 60 some pound pittie you don't have time to be gentle.
Image
rachel540
Posts: 515
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:31 am
Location: West Yorkshire

Re: Protecting your dog

Post by rachel540 »

On the occasion that people have had to step in to protect their dog, what has been your dogs reaction?

It has only happened to me and pepper once, a snarly, teeth baring, pure muscle little thing came speeding straight for us and i managed to pull pep behind me as i stepped forward and stuck my leg out towards the dog which skimmed my shoe and headed away, it came for a second attempt and i went to kick it, the owners at this point we're running down the street and it did a runner again. I was quite shook up, heart racing, etc while pep seemed oblivious that she could have had her head ripped off and trotted off tail wagging while i was nearly in tears :roll:
Pictures of Pepper viewtopic.php?f=31&t=14364
gwd
Posts: 1958
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:33 pm

Re: Protecting your dog

Post by gwd »

rachel540 wrote:On the occasion that people have had to step in to protect their dog, what has been your dogs reaction?
it's happened twice with boy dog. with the pittie, he was bowled over initially because he wasn't expecting the dog to go after him. he was focused on OH. by the time he'd picked himself up, OH had tackled the other dog. boy dog listened when i told him to get back. the other dog was also startled by what happned and stopped the fight when his head was pinned in the sand.

the other time i'm embarrassed to say i put boy dog in a vulnerable position. i lifted the business end of him off the ground. the attacker was a papillon. it charged out of it's garage, crossed the street and launched at him. normally i'd be worried about my boy but i was actually concerned that one retaliatory bite could end the pap's life. .......so i did a leg block. the irritating part of it all was while i had him suspended and was dancing around blocking the pap, the owner strolled.......and i do mean strolled up to collect her dog. actually she initially stood on the end of the driveway and tried calling him back. that was going nowhere. it was only after i yelled and threatened to let my boy down that she felt inspired to meander over and pick him up. :roll:
Image
MPbandmom
Posts: 1637
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:18 pm

Re: Protecting your dog

Post by MPbandmom »

We have on rare occasion encountered loose pit type dogs while walking in my neighborhood. Both times, my dog's reaction was way worse than the non existant threatening actions of the loose dog. The first time, I just picked Sirius up lest the other dog decide to accept her challenge. The second time, I had both dogs with me and ended up totally entangled with leads wrapped around my legs wondering what to do next. This dog had easily cleared his 3' high back yard chain link fence and come to say hello. I debated going to his house and knocking on the door to tell the people that their dog was out of the yard, but worried that he would become territorial with two dogs walking onto his property. I eventually got myself somewhat untangled and managed to get the dogs moving again to continue our walk when the other dog started circling us. This was rather worring and I wished I had the police non emergency number on my cell phone so that I could call for help. The owner realized his dog was out shortly after that and called the dog back and he went promptly.

The worst encounter we had though was with a chi that lives a few houses up the street and is very dog agressive and territorial. The owners only have a partial fence and that dog has charged at us on several occasions. I am afraid in that situation, I ended up doing much the same as GWD in that I ended up holding Sirius' front end off of the ground above chi level to prevent her from attacking the chi. Small dogs are known to trigger her prey/chase drive if they are being particularly active, and this dog was behaving in a manner that could have gone very badly for it. It challenged Sky directly and I'm not exactly sure what Sky did, but one moment the dog was charging at her and jumping and snapping at her and the next moment the dog yipped and ran away. I did call the police on this family a couple of times. They were seriously lacking in good management skills for the dog's safety both in its tendancy to charge at dogs much larger than itself, and in it's tendancy to back away from the family when they came to retrieve it to the point of stepping into the parking area of the street.
Grammy to Sky and Sirius, who came to live with me, stole my heart, and changed my life forever as I took over their care and learned how to be a dog owner.
lucyandbella
Posts: 304
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 7:19 pm

Re: Protecting your dog

Post by lucyandbella »

We have encountered loose dogs or have even had dogs jump the fence right as we were passing their house, most stay away, i have stopped charging dogs by making a lot of noise, a few times bigger dogs have "attacked" them but it was more of a scuffle/loud noise then actually biting thank goodness and the owners were right there to remove their loose dog(s). Lucy will allow me to step in and block the approaching dog, Bella reacts badly sometimes though, lunging at her leash which complicates matters. It's hard to protect 2 dogs at once(and idiot owners will reach right near Bella's mouth to grab their loose dogs too!) After both dogs are skittish and I am probably more jumpy and upset than them though. I hope some time I actually remember to use one of the two sprays I carry! I am horrible in stressful situations. I think its harder with two dogs as well because then you have a three dog fight! And trying to get away/defend both/etc is hard. If I used pepper spray in the mess of confusion, dogs, and leashes, I would probably end up spraying myself, my dogs, and the offending dog!

The one time we were actually attacked it was by a puggle type mutt thankfully not a large dog, but this time owners were not around. It targeted Lucy (I had both pepper spray and citronella spray and didn't think of either :oops: ) and bit at her hind leg and held on. I never saw it coming or would have tried to block it. She didn't fight back but just tried to get away, and I just tried to get it off by kicking it; it then bit my shoe then went back to her. I kicked it again and it released for a second then attacked again! Bella who I forgot had existed until this point and who had been staying back allowing me to deal with things, suddenly charged in and grabbed its back as it was hanging onto Lucy's leg, in a flash the little puggle was slammed to the ground...luckily she didn't kill it and let go and it tucked tail an ran away as fast as its legs could carry it. Not a good day for me, I failed to protect Lucy, and reactive Bella got to act on an impulse and practice a behavior I'd rather not have her try... but luckily Lucy was okay. Both dogs refuse to go down that street a year later.

One time a mastiff came charging after us, sounded like a horse galloping down the street behind us...I said some foul words and hoped it was friendly because there would be nothing I could do to stop it (I didn't have anything for defense this time). It was friendly...until Bella bared her teeth telling it to back off. It then started getting aggressive right as its owner came to drag it away. I have never really been afraid of a dog until that moment. I have had moments where I thought things might get ugly, but that was the fist time I thought "this dog could kill mine and I could do nothing about it and she wouldn't even have a fighting chance"...it made me understand what Clare and Ted go through. Bella's head could have fit in its mouth :shock: .
Post Reply