Dog Conformation

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MPbandmom
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Re: Dog Conformation

Post by MPbandmom »

emmabeth wrote:Ah now some interesting points here..

Firstly Sirius... bearing in mind she is NOT a sighthound of course, and I apologise for this in advance as I am pointing out a fault here.. her hind leg is very straight and she has a very short second thigh.

If you compare her hind leg to Sky's, you can see this quite clearly, there is not a lot of curve down the back side of the hind leg and the distance from the knee joint to the hock joint is short - not a huge fault in a non running dog, but the uprightness will shorten her stride.

In some breeds they actually appear to breed FOR a very upright hind leg but we are not talking breed showing here, I am talking 'mechanics' - the hind leg that is upright won't cover so much ground (shorter stride) and won't act so much like a spring, so moving requires more effort.

Now if you look at Opal running in slow mo, though it would be easier to see in a straight line - watch just HOW far her hind leg moves from when she picks it up, to when she puts it back down. She over tracks, ie, her hind leg comes WAY past her front leg before it hits the ground.

This is the point, of considering hind leg angulation, the back, upper hind leg and lower hind leg act like a spring and the more action that can be achieved through 'elastic' energy, the less effort the dog needs to put in, the more ground it can cover.
Very interesting, I had no idea. Sirius and Sky seem to be able to run at the same speed. I don't know if Sky self handicaps to make the game more sporting or not. I don't know if it is just her smaller size or a function of her leg structure, but Sirius seems to run very low to the ground. I'm not exactly sure how to describe it. I'm also not sure that there is much bounce in her pace. I'm trying to remember now. It just strikes me as the image of a low flying bullet. Her legs pump so fast they just become a blur. Sky can run very quickly, but her run is more graceful and bouncey. That is also very interesting about the gait of the GSD's

I am hoping to get video of the dogs running the lure course this weekend. Then I just need to figure out how to post it.
Grammy to Sky and Sirius, who came to live with me, stole my heart, and changed my life forever as I took over their care and learned how to be a dog owner.
MPbandmom
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Re: Dog Conformation

Post by MPbandmom »

gwd wrote:i thought this youtube might be fun from a 'quiz' or, 'you be the judge' perspective. it's got some excellent footage of some good moving dogs and some not so good moving dogs. it's a small class so it will be easy to keep your 'pick's straight. don't let the final placements by the judge affect your decisions on placement when you make your choices. this particular class is junior showmanship so it's not the dogs that are being judged but rather the handling skills of the juniors that decide the placements.

when looking at the movement, a few tips. .....take note when the dog is moving towards you, does it look true or does it look like an egg beater coming at you? when the dog is coming at you, can you see the rear legs moving out of the line? ......

now, when the dog is going away do the hocks remind you of pistons going up and down or are things kittywampus? .....btw, for setters, as speed increases they are suppose to veer closer to single tracking.

now when they go around......the side movement, does it look effortless, efficient and grown covering? does the topline remain level?

go ahead and be judges!!!

Hmmmm, I think I still need the benefit of slow motion to see things. :lol: I did notice that the second dog looked very bouncey, but I received the impression that the second dog was perhaps still a puppy. Some of the dogs seemed to be running sideways. Their front end seemed closer to the handler than their back end. I noticed this on the last 2 dogs that were judged in particular. I wasn't sure if that was a function of poor body structure, since I'm pretty sure one of the dogs that seemed to run sideways was identified as a champion, or perhaps discomfort on the part of the dog in having their hind feet so close to the handler's feet. I thought the first dog looked very smooth in motion.

What's my grade?
Grammy to Sky and Sirius, who came to live with me, stole my heart, and changed my life forever as I took over their care and learned how to be a dog owner.
gwd
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Re: Dog Conformation

Post by gwd »

MPbandmom wrote:Hmmmm, I think I still need the benefit of slow motion to see things. :lol:

What's my grade?
it's not perfect, but on youtube you can kind of do slow motion by clicking on the vid to pause it, then you can hold the space bar down and it will do a frame by frame which approximates slo mo.

i'll weigh in also with my opinion of the dogs tomorrow.......just wanna give anyone that wants to play a chance!

also, don't let the ch. in front of the name mean too much. i personally finished a dog that was lovely stacked up. a headpiece to die for, she also had lovely side movement, but OMG i hated her movement coming and going. she flipped her front and the rear was too wide. i finished her championship quite easily well before her 2nd birthday. when she turned 2 she was xrayed and got an ofa excellent and clear elbows. i elected to not breed her. after she finished her championship i did obedience with her and she was a good aunt to other litters! .....
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emmabeth
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Re: Dog Conformation

Post by emmabeth »

I am watching it now...

First dog, pale freckledy job - being super picky, slightly 'a frame' ish in the stack and on the move, forwards is nice but the back view shows he is quite close and a bit cow hocked (hocks nearer to one another than the feet are) - but all in all a nice dog who knows his job and on the whole enjoys it. Don't like the tight leash and seemingly neither does he as he leans away from it a little bit. The side view is fab, i like that.

Next is clearly a puppy - he again is a little a-frame ish in the stack and I don't think really strong enough to hold that position long or stay sturdy when gone over - coming and going his front end he is throwing his 'knees' out as his legs come forwards and does look a bit like an egg beater, the back view is a bit better and maturity and correct exercise might change things for this boy. The side view is ok but nothing special - he does do a fairly nice free stack when given the chance to do so though.

Next one is a darkish adult - nice and no glaring faults, shame he had a big shake coming towards the camera though!

Now a young looking dog and she fluffs stacking him, he is confused and distracted after the stack too - runs leaning into the lead and flings his knees out a bit and this is more obvious running away, he is leaning and running sideways. The side view is a bit nicer but poor handling shows up this guys faults i think



Currently on a very dark quite small dog (Blue and White Sky), who I predicted from the go over was NOT into this showing lark, and would show like a bag of spanners! He doesn't want to stand and his handler doesn't do the greatest job there, he is backing off from the judge going over him (I have no idea btw if this is a dog or *****). Don't like his head either.. and he has a rather upright hind leg.

On the move he is all over the place - how much of that is him and how much is bad handling I don't know but at several points he is running on THREE tracks, he is so sideways on and leaning on the lead away from the handler!

Sooooo I tink that the first dog came in first, third dog to go got second and then I would place the two younger dogs, t he pale one third and the darker one fourth....


Erp - I am right except for fourth place! Watched the last two again and I cant see why she picked that one over the other really!
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
MPbandmom
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Re: Dog Conformation

Post by MPbandmom »

For those who may not know what a Buhund is. http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/local/b ... like%22%7D

This is the breed that I originally thought Sirius might be. I was noticing that his hind leg seems rather straight too although it isn't the best angle in the picture.

Sirius' tail will lay down on her back like Cash's tail is in the picture when she is highly aroused.
Grammy to Sky and Sirius, who came to live with me, stole my heart, and changed my life forever as I took over their care and learned how to be a dog owner.
Erica
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Re: Dog Conformation

Post by Erica »

Image

Here's a picture I managed to get of Opal's walking-but-almost-trotting tracks. There's a bit more than 16 inches or 40 cm (if I've measured my footprint right - my shoe is 12 in/30 cm long) between back and front foot. :shock: Still working on getting her in show pose...she'll stretch one leg back if I put it there, but she won't bend the other leg like show GSDs seem to do.

So yes, some really intense over tracking with O girl.
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14
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minkee
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Re: Dog Conformation

Post by minkee »

I found this link, and thought it may be of interest to some of you :3 http://www.manchester.ac.uk/aboutus/new ... y/?id=9636

I've been shown how to stack, and have been sort of attempting to do it with Breeze. I REALLY don't know if I'm doing it right, though. I suppose I should film it and see if that helps. There doesn't seem to be any local classes for it either, which is a shame. The only one that is doesn't teach you how to do it, they just faux judge you, or something like that. A dry run, as it were.

For now I'll just keep practising daily to try and get him used to the standing and the handling if nothing else. I haven't even begun to think about the running part!
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minkee
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Re: Dog Conformation

Post by minkee »

I am now beginning to think of the running part :) Again, I have absolutely no clue what I'm meant to be doing here. Can anyone give me some pointers?

I'm really a bit in the dark about all this with no classes here. Apparently there is one in Scarborough but they don't TEACH anything, just judge, so really unhelpful for me at this point. The lady I know also said that they're a "bunch of snobs" so it's a bit intimidating!

What I also don't know is.... where do I go once we have our stack and our running-around (sorry I don't even know what it's called :lol: ) someway half decent? I don't know how to find local shows, and what I'd be meant to enter into..... and so on! I'm going to email my breeder again and see what she has to say about it, too :)

Any direction gratefully received! I feel like we're treading water in the dark here :)
gwd
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Re: Dog Conformation

Post by gwd »

sometimes i stumble around on youtube. tonight my surfing gave me the most wonderful surprise ever!

in the first page of this thread i posted some pictures of my setters. the picture i posted was my beloved maggie girl. she was a 'heart dog' .........

well, back in the late 80's i was invited to fly to nj to participate in the filming of the akc breed video........i never did see a copy of that video........but damn if it's not online and tonight i found it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvDZb1XGx2I

my girl is at 5:09

ha, she is used as an example in a b*tch that is too long in loin..........to be fair, when i posted her picture i did say that was her fault! no one can accuse me of being kennel blind and not recognizing (and admitting) where my dogs faults lie!

she's also in the vid a few other times as an example of a lovely head and beautiful markings......but i didn't bother to link the episodes 1 or 2......

anyhoo.........i brought back so many good memories of my maggie girl. the trip to nj, the times i was in the ring with her, seeing her nurse her babies, and when she was an old mamma dog, slow and gray, but still every bit as beautiful to me. i admit to shedding a tear or two seeing her on video.
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lilly5425
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Re: Dog Conformation

Post by lilly5425 »

Yes, all dogs have these whorls on their fannys, some Beagles have their whorls with different color fur, fancy ones.
They all spin opposite directions, see my quick page to show how our dog has her whorls configured.
Its a triple mouseover, so mouse over the picture to see the second view, then click to see the third.
Lilly is a Yellow Lab, so her whorls arent quite as fancy as our old Beagle's were. Not multi-colored anyway.
http://www.jcarter.net/bw/buttwhorls.html
DianeLDL
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Re: Dog Conformation

Post by DianeLDL »

Gwd,

It is like my chihuahua being as they call deer-like. It doesn't fit the usual, especially the AKC version of a chihuahua especially with his long legs and at 11.5 pounds.

I read that they all come in the same litter. There could be most who fit the AKC and then one or two like Sandy. They don't know why.

I'm sure your dog may not fit their standards, but to insult you and your dog that way, it plain RUDE. :twisted:

I know you care for your dog so much and to say those things, is inexcusable. :D
Diane
Sandy, Chihuahua mix b. 12/20/09
lilly5425
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Re: Dog Conformation

Post by lilly5425 »

Thats odd, I posted my info right under the topic about the whorls on dogs, and it somehow jumped to a topic which is totally unrelated.
I wonder why the forum isnt in the order of topics? So I will try to post it in the correct topic area again.
This one,
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16321&start=45
Sorry.
JudyN
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Re: Dog Conformation

Post by JudyN »

lilly5425 wrote:Thats odd, I posted my info right under the topic about the whorls on dogs, and it somehow jumped to a topic which is totally unrelated.
I wonder why the forum isnt in the order of topics? So I will try to post it in the correct topic area again.
This one,
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=16321&start=45
Sorry.
You posted in the right thread, Lily, but the mention of whorls was page 4 (the page you've linked to above) and your reply went on the end of the thread, which is on page 5. Welcome to the forum, BTW! :D
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
lilly5425
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Re: Dog Conformation

Post by lilly5425 »

Thank you for the explanation.
I use some other forums, and when you 'reply', the post is directly under the comment that you are replying to, not far far down somewhere else.
How would I comment on a single post, so that it would appear directly under it?
And so the comments would not get lost in different topics.
Thank you,
Lilly
JudyN
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Re: Dog Conformation

Post by JudyN »

lilly5425 wrote:How would I comment on a single post, so that it would appear directly under it?
You can't, I'm afraid (I could see it getting very confusing if several posts in a thread became effectively sub-threads, but then it's not what I'm familiar with). The best thing is to do as I've done here and above - quote the post (or section of the post) you want to comment on, and add your comment underneath. People reading your post will understand the context from the quoted material.
lilly5425 wrote:And so the comments would not get lost in different topics.
Each thread should stay relatively on topic, and if it's an old thread like this one, it's not likely to get a lot of additional posts on different aspects of dog conformation, so it shouldn't be a problem. However, if you feel you're going to create a lot if discussion on whorls, you could start it as a new separate topic. If a thread begins to diverge into separate topics, you could also suggest to Emmabeth that she splits the posts to make two separate threads.

Hope that helps! If it's not clear, or there's other aspects you're not clear on, it might be worth raising them in a new thread so they don't interrupt this one. But it's not something we get hung up over :D
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
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