I don't seem to be coping very well with my puppy

[LittlebrookLyn]

We have a 13yr old chocolate labrador and 3mths ago bought a shih tzu puppy who we have now had for 3mths and she is now just under 8mths old.

The problems I am having are twofold. Firstly Daisy seems to want to be outside all the time, which is confusing me as I thought a shih tzu was a small dog that although needing exercise, was equally happy to be indoors with it's owner, but this seems to not be the case. She will just sit and cry and scratch at the door and as I'm never sure if she want to go out for a pee or poo I tend to let her out to see what she wants, but half the time she just wants to scratch up the stones on the patio and try to eat them, plus any slugs, snails or other creatures that she might come across outside.

The second problem I have is that Daisy is a poo eater. She will eat her own poo, but she will also eat our labrador's poo too. As our labrador tends to poo quite a lot and also poos as she walks along the garden we found it impossible to make sure the lawn was always clear of poo, so we ended up fencing off the lawn and just letting Daisy use the patio. She has now learned how to get through the fence onto the garden, that is how desperate she is to be on the lawn and in the flower beds. The weather is awful here right now and our garden is like a bog and I'm tearing my hair out constantly going in and out and cleaning up.

We never had any problems with our labrador when she was a puppy like this. She would go out and do whatever she needed to do then come back in and we assumed a shih tzu would be similar, but no Daisy just seems to want to be outside all the time.

She is getting two 20mins walks a day and plenty of play in the house and I am home all day so I have no idea what I am doing wrong and would really appreciate some advice. Thanks for reading this post.

Lyn

[Suzette]

Hi, My first thought when I read your post is that I think Daisy is bored. Her walks are on the short side, but it's great that she's getting two a day. I'd just make them longer and perhaps more interesting to her. (For instance, if you don't do this already, let her spend some of her time on the walks sniffing and exploring.)

I'd also throw in some training sessions throughout the day to exercise her mind, which will also help to tire her out mentally. At her age, go for several 5-10 minute training sessions scattered throughout the day. If you go onto youtube, kikopup has lots of great, free training videos, or go to Karen Pryor's site http://www.clickertraining.com/ and learn about clicker training (if you don't know about this already). Both are wonderful resources for learning easy, fun ways to train your pup.

As for the poo eating, honestly, the easiest answer is to simply pick it up when your dogs poo. Daisy can't eat it if it's not there, and trust me, once this habit is ingrained in a dog, it is an uphill battle getting them to stop. The best way to do this is to go out with them when it's potty break time, not just open the door and let them out. I made this my habit right from the start when I brought my pup home (a year and a half ago) and it's just so much a part of my routine now, I don't even think about it, I just do it.

And I know first hand how easy it is to compare one dog in our family to another (or one we had in the past), but each dog is unique. I would forget about comparing Daisy to your other dog and, as our Nettle often says here, work with the dog in front of you.

[LittlebrookLyn]

I thought we were walking her for about the right amount of time for her age. I'm not really able to go any longer as I suffer with agoraphobia and the most I can manage is 20mins and I do that with my husband as I'm not able to get out alone. We bought this particular breed purely because we were told they would be happy just having exercise in the home and didn't necessarily need an outdoor walk, although I believe all dogs need the stimulation of going outside for a proper walk which is why we make sure she does get out.

Lyn

[jacksdad]

I believe the rule is 5 minute per month. so at 8 months, 40 minutes on a walk would be the max. A 20 to 30 minute walk 2 times a day should be ok.

When you walk her, do you let her sniff and explore?

When you play with her in the house, what kinds of games are you playing?

as for your expectations for this dog. Yes, breeds do have traits that are fairly common across the board. HOWEVER... dogs are NOT carbon copies of the "breed specifications". each individual dog will be unique in it's own way even within what is considered "breed norms". At the end of the day, we have to learn to work with who the dog really is, not worry about what the "breed specifications" say it should be.

at 8 months old, I am not at all surprised your dog has energy to spare, wants to be outside and explore.

on the poo eating. Suzette is right, the best way to prevent it from happening is to make sure there isn't any poo to eat out in your yard. health/diet can contribute to this problem. for example my dog was having a reaction to his epilepsy medication last year that cause him to have diarrhea for the better part of the year. prior to this, he showed NO interest in eating poo. during he started eating poo. at the peak of all this, our walks had turn into one big poo eating hunt on his part and a full time job trying to prevent it from me. turned walks into a big frustration. solving his medication problem and adjusting his diet not only solved his diarrhea, but reduced his desire to eat poo by easily 98% as of today. he will ignore most dog poo, but now has a taste for the cat stuff.

There is NO one good answer as to why some dogs will and some dogs won't and why those that do, eat poo. But dogs being essentially scroungers by nature once they learn it's a source of even limited nutrition seem to forever have a taste for it. making sure your feeding good quality food can help. Making sure your dog is healthy can help. Making sure your dog doesn't have the opportunity to eat poo can help. But there isn't a known cure as in do X and it stops for ever and ever. The closest to a "cure" is simply making sure there isn't poo to eat.

[Suzette]

I thought we were walking her for about the right amount of time for her age. I'm not really able to go any longer as I suffer with agoraphobia and the most I can manage is 20mins and I do that with my husband as I'm not able to get out alone. We bought this particular breed purely because we were told they would be happy just having exercise in the home and didn't necessarily need an outdoor walk, although I believe all dogs need the stimulation of going outside for a proper walk which is why we make sure she does get out.

Lyn

I wasn't aware of your situation, but perhaps your husband could take her for an extra walk throughout the day to get her out and physically stimulated a bit more - just a thought. The five minute for every month rule is true enough, as Jacksdad says, but soon she will be old enough to go beyond that and she certainly can now as well as long as you don't seriously overdo it. It's just a general rule of thumb but some dogs will do great with a bit more than "average". When my own dog was a pup (not all that long ago), I used it as a guideline, but since most of our walks at that time were more like meanderings with lots of time to stop, sniff and explore, I often went well beyond the "five minute rule" with no ill effects.

But whether or not more/longer walks are in your plans, I would still add to her day by throwing in that training. It really will help to stimulate her mind, wear her out, and make for an all around happier, healthier dog.

I also want to say that I think you are doing great with her! You recognized a need in your dog and came here seeking some answers to help her out. That's a great owner!

[LittlebrookLyn]

Thanks for the replies. Funnily enough yesterday she was like a totally different puppy and spent much more time just chilling out. We are going out walking when it's dark at the moment as it's the only time my husband is home. So we are out for the first walk at about 6.30am and Daisy is always so enthusiastic to be out that she doesn't stop and sniff. We go out again at about 6.30pm and once again it's dark and we are pavement walking so not really many smells around for her. I had kind of forgotten about their need to have a good sniff around. The problem with shih tzu's however is that they will pick up anything and everything so I'm always having to keep an eye on what she is doing when she is outside.

Only way I can increase her walks is at the weekends when we can probably take her to the park where at least there will be some different smells, but with it getting dark so early it's not something we can do in the week.

We do take Daisy to classes but as she was already nearly 5mths old we missed the puppy ones, which was a shame. However she did her 8wk Kennel Club Good Citizen Puppy classes and got her rosette for that. We started taking her to the intermediate classes after that and although she enjoys going she seems to have reached that age when sit/stay or down/stay don't work as well as they did. We do learn some tricks at classes like 'peekaboo' and 'tissue' which we also do at home, although her favourite game is taking all her tennis balls out of her toy basket and then jumping from one sofa to the other with each one. She does like to play 'fetch' and we do that every day too.

Lyn

[emmabeth]

Make sure you are practicing what you learn in class, at home - so training sessions of 5 minutes or so, several times a day.

Shih Tzu's in my experience are VERY bright little things and they are not a breed to hang off their owners every word or leap to attention to do something purely because you asked them to... which is something that a lot of new owners find a bit of a shock as they are expecting a fluffy little lapdog who wants to cuddle all day, and not a REAL dog in a fluffy suit, who has his own ideas and opinions!

I would strongly suggest you look up clicker training and do that with her and really, forget her being a 'small fluffy dog' in the way you live with her (obviously when out and about yes she is a small fluffy dog, so don't allow big dogs to flatten her etc).

[LittlebrookLyn]

Yeah I have heard shih tzu's just "pretend" to be stupid

I do try to train Daisy every day but some days it feels like Groundhog Day. I know she knows what "down" means as she has learned it, however she will only do a "down" for a treat and as soon as the treat is eaten she gets up. I try to keep her sniffing at the treat for as long as I can in a "down" position and I've tried just making my hand smelly by rubbing it with some cheese to keep her in a down which is what the trainer recommended, but she still just gets up and walks away

Lyn

[bendog]

Are you still luring the down?
I recommend a book by jean Donaldson "how to train like a pro" which is great for puppy training and teaches stuff in small stages.

If you are luring you want to phaseout the treat and switch to a hand lure, and then give the treat when she's in the right position. You can then wait a little longer each time before giving the treat to get her to hold the down .

[Nettle]

Non-task-driven dogs don't care to do what they see as pointless exercises for no reward, so we don't get co-operation for asking more than once for up-down-sit-stay etc.

They DO like doing things that give them a result that appeals to them - so cardboard box games etc are much more fun and they are far more likely to want to do those sort of exercises.

[Sarah83]

Would also recommend Jane Killions When Pigs Fly if you're interested in books. It's geared towards people with the less eager to please breeds and I found it an interesting read. The Jean Donaldson one Bendog recommends is also very good.

she seems to have reached that age when sit/stay or down/stay don't work as well as they did

Yup, my Lab has just come through this stage and I can honestly say it's easy to see why so many dogs are rehomed at this point in their life. He's basically gone back to the way he was before adolescence hit now but Labs are generally a breed that want to work with you.

[OnceInAWeil]

Yeah I have heard shih tzu's just "pretend" to be stupid

I do try to train Daisy every day but some days it feels like Groundhog Day. I know she knows what "down" means as she has learned it, however she will only do a "down" for a treat and as soon as the treat is eaten she gets up. I try to keep her sniffing at the treat for as long as I can in a "down" position and I've tried just making my hand smelly by rubbing it with some cheese to keep her in a down which is what the trainer recommended, but she still just gets up and walks away

Lyn

Some dogs have to be built up to longer downs. They don't understand the concept of staying down. Once she is down, try putting a bunch of (like 7) treats between her paws. Because there are so many, it will take her a moment to eat them all, and because they are between her paws, it will be hard for her to get up while still eating. This should give you time to release her (pick a release word like "okay" or "done" and stick to it, using it to indicate that a behavior is over) before she gets up. Don't wait until she is completely done with the treats to release her. The concept is to release her before she gets up, so she starts understanding that she has to wait--just like with teaching stay. Then you can slowly build up the time, second by second.

[Erica]

I am doing something similar with Pippin. Instead of putting all the treats on the floor, though, I simply have a ton in my hand and dole them out one-at-a-time while she's in a down position. If she stands up, the treats stop immediately. Putting them all on the floor would lead her, at least, to stand up and eat them. I don't know if this is because she's small or just her personality, but I felt it would be worth mentioning.

[LittlebrookLyn]

Thanks for the tips, will give them a try

Lyn