Might have to send my baby away..

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yummybagel
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Might have to send my baby away..

Post by yummybagel » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:06 am

I had my Beagle for three years. I've raised him with my family until about two to three weeks ago. I moved away, and I took my dog with me. But the problem is, he isn't behaving the way that my housemates and roommate want him to behave. One of them doesn't want him in her room, though the door is broken so it doesn't close properly. I think it's kind of impossible to train him not to enter a room with a broken door, especially at times when I can't supervise him. But it seems like she expects him to automatically understand. She is for the aversive training method, and though she so far respected the fact that I try not to yell at or hit my dog, I can tell that she thinks of me as silly for not punishing him. Today when he went into her room, I tried to lure him out of the room with treats. And while watching me do that, she said: "Everytime he does something bad, he gets a treat."

And also I'm beginning to think that maybe my dog isn't happy here with me either. He moved from a house to a much smaller apartment. While I've been walking him the same amount of time as before, it seems as if he is getting antsy. His eyes are red most of the evenings, and he looks kind of sad....I do feel that he is getting a little stressed. He is behaving a bit differently than how he used to behave at home. I feel as if he is a little bit more edgy towards me. Or maybe it's because....I confess....I yelled at him several days ago. I was so discouraged and feeling down because of how sad he looked and how my roommates have been reacting to him, that I committed the big sin of yelling at him. Now I feel like everyone wants him to be sent home, and I don't know what to do. The reason why this is a dillema is because if he is sent back home, I know for sure that he will not be taken care of. Though he will for sure be let out to the backyard, he probably will not be walked (maybe 30 minutes if he is lucky), and there will be no mental stimulation. I also worry that all the training that I have been doing on him will take huge steps backwards. For example, I"ve been teaching him to loose leash walk. But that's all going to be messed up because I know that my family will not follow anything that I tell them to follow. Even after I tell them that I"m training him, they'll let him pull because it's easier. I won't be able to visit him because I am eight hours away from home.

I really don't know what to do....Any opinions?

gwd
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Re: Might have to send my baby away..

Post by gwd » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:24 am

yummybagel wrote:

I really don't know what to do....Any opinions?
dog are masters at picking up on our emotions.........you've both had some major changes in your life, stress and perhaps a bit of homesickness on your part is likely to have an impact on your pup. .......clearly you're stressed, you yelled at your baby! while the yelling wasn't a good thing, i think it's also important to realize that the yelling is the symptom.

and yeah, it's totally unreasonable to expect your boy to understand a whole set of new rules right away. .......and boo hiss on your roomies for expecting him to not have time to learn. i have to think that they're unreasonable demands are heaping more stress on you.

so, the door doesn't shut properly........why the heck hasn't she fixed it? ......if this is something that can't be fixed right away, perhaps a baby gate in her doorway will solve the problem in the interim.

so now some rules........(not for your dog, but for the roommates)........they are NOT permitted to yell at your boy. OMG, would they take such liberties if it were a child? you don't go around yelling at someone elses kid, why do they think that it's ok to do to a dog?

here's the thing, if they can't respect your edict on this issue, are these really people you want to live with? roommate harmony is always difficult but it doesn't stand much of a chance without mutual respect......and by violating your wishes re: your dog, they're being disrespectful to you.
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JudyN
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Re: Might have to send my baby away..

Post by JudyN » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:28 am

Could you get stairgates to keep him confined to areas your flatmates are happy for him to be? In addition, you'll probably have to up his exercise/training/play to help him cope with the change and the reduced space he has.

Also, as hard as it is, agree some ground rules with your housemates about how they treat your dog. Listen to what they say they don't want him to do, and work out ways of making that happen. Maybe get them involved in positive training so they can see how effective it is, and explain that giving treats for leaving a room you don't want him to be in is rewarding coming out of the room, not going in.

You sound stressed yourself and this will be transferring to your dog. If every time he looks sad you look at him with sad, worried eyes, he will sense that you are worried and that will make him worried.... a vicious circle. So try to think positive yourself, that you can make this work for all of you.

Good luck!
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Ari_RR
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Re: Might have to send my baby away..

Post by Ari_RR » Fri Sep 28, 2012 4:40 am

Well.. Just 3 weeks at the new place. It takes much longer to get adjusted..

So, if this was a dog problem, i'd say - let him take time and settle in, and just keep working on things with him like you've been doing so far.

But this seems to be a human drama, where a very temporary set of characters in your life are somehow pushing you in the direction you don't want to go in. This is not uncommon,though.. These guys and girls, your housemates, especially the one with the broken door, seem to be bullies! And they seem to be good at being bullies, and you seem to be good at being a victim :wink: , since you are, for example, bothered by them thinking of you as silly for not punishing your dog.

But.. This is a dog forum, and i don't want to suggest a way of dealing with human bullies, because it really depends on your personality.

Just remember - time passes, you will soon part ways with these folks. They don't get what you are trying to do with your dog, don't care and don't want to be a part of it or help you, don't want to sacrifice a bit of their convenience to make things easier for you, choosing instead to give you nasty little comments.. So, why does it matter what they think of you? It really doesn't. You are a good person, not silly at all trying to work with your dog, so don't waste time worrying what the girl sitting in the next room with a broken door thinks of you, there are much more interesting things than that.

However, just like 3 weeks is not enough for your dog to adjust, it's not enough for you and your mates to adjust. Perhaps give it more time, treat them with kindness and patience, and who knows - you might succeed in training them too!

In any case, living with a broken door, by the way, seems a bit bizarre, to tell the truth.. :lol:

So, chill, don't yell at your dog, living with bully housemates can be a bit stressful, but don't let it spoil the fun. No one is perfect. Some have broken doors, others have dogs that wonder around. Coexisting means everyone gives in a little.

On a practical side - putting a couple of barriers to keep him safe from the doorless monster might be a good idea!

Just my 2 cents...
And watch this movie if you haven't already - "L'Auberge espagnole", a wonderful story of living with room mates.

Suzette
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Re: Might have to send my baby away..

Post by Suzette » Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:22 am

Take a deep breath! :D I think you and your dog are doing fine, it's your room mate who seems to be the problem. She's causing you added stress and shame on her for doing so. We can't control how other people think and act or what they say and do, be we do have control over our response to them. Just continue being yourself and treating and training your dog positively as you both adjust to a huge change in lifestyle. Over time, as your room mate sees your dog learning the new rules and adjusting under your kind and understanding hand, she just might start changing her tune. In the meantime, you might want to sit down and have a talk with her about respecting you and your right to train your dog as you see fit without her snide comments and disrespectful attitude towards you.

As for yelling at your dog, well, you already know it was wrong, but I think there are few among us here who haven't committed that same "sin" at least on a few occasions over the years of dog ownership. So go ahead and forgive yourself for being human and slipping up under the strain of all that's going on in your life. :wink: :D

I agree about either fixing the broken door or putting up a baby gate - simple solutions that will save a ton of frustration for everyone in your home. If your room mate bulks at either suggestion, then she is someone who would rather complain about a situation than resolve it. And people like that are very, very hard to live with. Hopefully she will embrace one of these solutions.

I wish you luck. Rooming with people that are difficult is not an easy road. I hope you all can work it out to everyone's benefit. :D :D
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ClareMarsh
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Re: Might have to send my baby away..

Post by ClareMarsh » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:21 am

yummybagel wrote:She is for the aversive training method, and though she so far respected the fact that I try not to yell at or hit my dog, I can tell that she thinks of me as silly for not punishing him. Today when he went into her room, I tried to lure him out of the room with treats. And while watching me do that, she said: "Everytime he does something bad, he gets a treat."
Maybe you could ask her to fix the door and everytime she doesn't punch her :shock: :lol: Sorry, couldn't resist :D

In all seriousness I bet this is really stressful for you so you have my sympathy. I'm also guessing that you can't switch accommodation and so you have to learn to live with these housemates.

If I were you I'd get a baby gate put on my own door and control him more that way if you can. I suspect even if the door was fixed she'd still leave it open and then complain about him going in and being "bad" :roll: The other thing I'd do is get a leash so that you can clip him to you in the house (you know like you do when house training), sure it's a bit of a pain but it keeps him with you and out of their way more whilst he's settling in.
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lucyandbella
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Re: Might have to send my baby away..

Post by lucyandbella » Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:51 am

Lucy and Bella came home from the shelter to my parent’s house. They were mostly attached to me, but they also had bonded a bit with both of my parents and were used to life there. When I moved to my very small place for college with a tiny "yard" (more of a glorified patio really) they were stressed for awhile. The first few days, or maybe even a week, they cried constantly and when I stood up they would run to the door as if to say "are we going home now?" They were also jumpy and nervous for awhile. It broke my heart and I was convinced they hated being with me at our downsized place and would rather be with my parents. My parents would take care of my dogs if they had to, but like your family it wouldn’t be to the extent they need. I kept them but felt like I was being horrible to them, I think like some others suggested it was my stress from moving that had me thinking these things and probably affecting my two dogs as well. I think it’s more that your dog is adjusting from leaving the place he lived for 3 years, rather than he is miserable at the new place. Give him some more time to adjust, it does take time. My dogs are perfectly happy now and this is home to them.

I agree with others I do up the exercise because they can get anxious from being cooped up if I don't, if your roommates are making you angry or upsetting you and you have free time, go on an extra walk. I don't have roommates luckily, but that does sound like a tough situation, however, I don't know if being away from you somewhere he won't get as much attention and time would be less stressful for him. I would give him more time to adjust if I were you, and who cares what your roommates think, you know positive methods work.

What if you taught him a cue like "go to your room" that means he runs to your room? Or something less silly but still, a cue that means to go to a specific place. That way both you and your roommates have away to remove him without force and then they can shut their door once he leaves. If he gets crazy amounts of praise and treats when he runs into your room, then pretty soon when he hears that cue he will be more than willing to run in there. If you teach him to run to a place for the treat first, you won't have to try to lure him out of places he isn’t suppose to be in. And it will also insure that your roommates don't grab his collar and throw him out if you are not there.

jacksdad
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Re: Might have to send my baby away..

Post by jacksdad » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:15 am

yummybagel wrote: But the problem is, he isn't behaving the way that my housemates and roommate want him to behave.
How do they want him to behave?
yummybagel wrote: One of them doesn't want him in her room, though the door is broken so it doesn't close properly.
Your housemate needs to fix and close her door. She also needs to take some responsibility in this.
yummybagel wrote:She is for the aversive training method, and though she so far respected the fact that I try not to yell at or hit my dog, I can tell that she thinks of me as silly for not punishing him.
Not her dog, she has NO say in the training method. She does NOT get to do anything other than what you say is ok to do towards your dog. PERIOD. Your going to need to stand up for your self and your dog here.
yummybagel wrote: Today when he went into her room, I tried to lure him out of the room with treats. And while watching me do that, she said: "Everytime he does something bad, he gets a treat."
Two things.

one. I would not have tired to lure him out. I would have "herded" him out with gentle body blocks or just picked him up and carried him out if he is ok with that.

Two. ignore her comments. they don't contribute to anything.
yummybagel wrote: And also I'm beginning to think that maybe my dog isn't happy here with me either. He moved from a house to a much smaller apartment. While I've been walking him the same amount of time as before, it seems as if he is getting antsy. His eyes are red most of the evenings, and he looks kind of sad....I do feel that he is getting a little stressed. He is behaving a bit differently than how he used to behave at home. I feel as if he is a little bit more edgy towards me. Or maybe it's because....I confess....I yelled at him several days ago. I was so discouraged and feeling down because of how sad he looked and how my roommates have been reacting to him, that I committed the big sin of yelling at him.
again, two things. First, you are in a new place, a fairly major change. that alone is going to cause some stress in your dog. Second, he is probably picking up on the stress from you and the "negative vibe" from your housemates.

also, you didn't commit a big sin in yelling at him. your human, your stressed, frustrated etc. sure it wasn't helpful, constructive etc, etc. but I would hardly call it a "big sin".

my two cents for what to do....

I am assuming you have your own room. If so, this is now your dog's "kennel/crate" when you can't supervise him. For now, he doesn't get the run of the house if your not around or able to supervise him. this is now his safe/stress free spot. close the door or put up a baby gate something so that he can't "irritate" you housemates.

And lastly you are going to have to be a bit stronger standing up for your self. yes, you do need to meet your housemates half way in order to live peacefully with them. BUT they also need to meet you half way too AND you NEED to stand up for your self when they don't. Using the dog in the room as an example. YES, you have a responsibility to take steps to honor your housemates wish of "no dog in my room". But she also needs to take steps to aid in this too. She needs to fix her door so it says closed AND she needs to take responsibility for closing her door.

yummybagel
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Re: Might have to send my baby away..

Post by yummybagel » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:45 pm

Thank you all very much. It's helped a lot. I will do something about that door. I feel as if I take the initiative and fix that door, she really won't be able to say anything if he does go into her room again.
Ari_RR wrote:However, just like 3 weeks is not enough for your dog to adjust, it's not enough for you and your mates to adjust. Perhaps give it more time, treat them with kindness and patience, and who knows - you might succeed in training them too!
Just my 2 cents...
And watch this movie if you haven't already - "L'Auberge espagnole", a wonderful story of living with room mates.
I find that it is the humans that are more difficult to train. And definitely, I'll check the movie out!
ClareMarsh wrote:If I were you I'd get a baby gate put on my own door and control him more that way if you can. I suspect even if the door was fixed she'd still leave it open and then complain about him going in and being "bad" :roll: The other thing I'd do is get a leash so that you can clip him to you in the house (you know like you do when house training), sure it's a bit of a pain but it keeps him with you and out of their way more whilst he's settling in.
That is kind of what happened. So there are four girls living in the apartment. Two to a room. There's the problem girl and another girl living in one room, and me and my direct roommate living in the other. (Sorry I've been using the words rommate and housemate interchangably). The other housemate living with the problem girl left the door open and Bagel went right in. I don't blame the other housemate. I think it's her habit to keep the door open all the time, and she's still adjusting too. But I think it was very unfair to blame Bagel for going in.
jacksdad wrote:
yummybagel wrote: But the problem is, he isn't behaving the way that my housemates and roommate want him to behave.
How do they want him to behave?
I don't think they expected him to have...."problems." My direct roomate, the one who I'm sharing the actual room with, has a small pomeranian and though I've never met her, she barely gets into trouble according to my roommate's friends. Her father was the one who trained her (the pomeranian) mainly, and to my knowledge was a bit harsh on her. I feel like they are comparing the pomeranian with my Beagle. They expect him to heed my every word and that he isn't listening because I"m not being stern with him.
jacksdad wrote:Two things. one. I would not have tired to lure him out. I would have "herded" him out with gentle body blocks or just picked him up and carried him out if he is ok with that. Two. ignore her comments. they don't contribute to anything.
I would have herded him out, but he already knows that no one wants him in the room. So I feel like whenever I go in there to bring him out, (I might be reading this totally wrong but..) he is going into the "defensive mode" and he goes crazy. By crazy I mean, barking and avoiding me and running around in circles. And he's been a little edgy so I am afraid that he will snap if I try to pick him up..Not to mention that he is quite big..He is not obese, but he is still on the little chubby side, though I do think he lost some weight after being on raw. But I am working on the weight thing. It's so difficult to keep a Beagle slim, especially when he finds a little someting to eat buried under the dirt everytime when we go on walks :roll:
jacksdad wrote:I am assuming you have your own room. If so, this is now your dog's "kennel/crate" when you can't supervise him. For now, he doesn't get the run of the house if your not around or able to supervise him. this is now his safe/stress free spot. close the door or put up a baby gate something so that he can't "irritate" you housemates.
I really really wish that I can use my room as the "crate." That would make everything sooooo much easier. But the problem is, I am sharing a room with another girl, and this time she doesn't want him on her bed. She is actually very nice about it, very patient so I can't say anything bad. But it retricts my dog and I tremendously in so many different ways. I was thinking of installing the baby...I can't remember the name of it...the thing that you install so that babies can't roll off the bed. But that's also money... :( I am a very poor college student relying on the government money to educate myself. If push comes to shove, I will get the thing, but I think for now I plan on keeping him on leash majority of the time. And definitely, I will have to train him to get off the furniture and going in his kennel on cue, but with school starting I don't know how often I'll be able to train him. This is also another reason why I'm debating about sending him home. What if I get so busy that I can't train him as much as I should?

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Nettle
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Re: Might have to send my baby away..

Post by Nettle » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:30 pm

What did you intend to do with him while you were at school?
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Re: Might have to send my baby away..

Post by JudyN » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:38 pm

yummybagel wrote: she doesn't want him on her bed. She is actually very nice about it, very patient so I can't say anything bad.
Would she be OK about him going on her bed if you got a special blanket to go on the bed whenever you couldn't supervise? You would need him to get off on command, but as well as working on that maybe you could call him for a treat whenever she walked in the door and eventually he'd get off whenever she appeared.

I can understand not wanting to herd Bagel. Jasper hates being herded, it makes him feel uncomfortable and quite insecure, so I always call him or direct him (and indoor recalls get top-notch treats!).

With having time for training - I'd focus on the really important skills you need at the moment, such as 'off', 'settle down', recall in the home and not worry about much else. See if you can get your roommate to do some work with him too - it will pay dividends as he'll be more inclined to listen to her and she will learn what makes him tick. After all, he's her roommate too now so they need to have a good relationship - if she regards him as she would a pair of your shoes you keep leaving in inconvenient places it's not going to work!
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yummybagel
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Re: Might have to send my baby away..

Post by yummybagel » Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:20 pm

Nettle wrote:What did you intend to do with him while you were at school?
Before I moved in I was thinking of just putting him in my room because I assumed that my roommate would be ok with having him on her bed since she had her own dog. But it's my fault for assuming. I guess it's different having another person's dog on your bed...a much bigger dog too. But she didn't say anything about not wanting him on her bed until after I moved in. Actually, several days after I moved in. So I didn't make plans or anything. Now, I am putting him in the living room with the broken-doored room barricaded. Although I think Bagel did find his way into the room because the door was open when I got home. Thankfully my housemate wasn't there.

gwd
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Re: Might have to send my baby away..

Post by gwd » Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:44 pm

JudyN wrote:
yummybagel wrote: she doesn't want him on her bed. She is actually very nice about it, very patient so I can't say anything bad.
Would she be OK about him going on her bed if you got a special blanket to go on the bed whenever you couldn't supervise?
which is just how i do things when i've been in a motel.........i take my own flat sheet and put it over the bed so that i don't have to worry about if my dogs leave a bit of hair on their bedspread.
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Re: Might have to send my baby away..

Post by Flyby » Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:59 am

Not very helpful suggestion, but I would seriously think about a move.

It's really not difficult to mend a broken door, but reading between the lines, it sounds like a bitchy 'not my job to do it' type atmosphere. I've stayed in flats like that when I was at college, and if you don't move, you're often left miserable. There's nothing to compare with living in upbeat flat with guys/girls who get along, enjoy each others company, and like nothing better than having a chuckle about things.
I once shared a flat with 4 medics, and Barney, a golden lab. One flatmate thought it was hilarious to toss Barney's ball over another flatmate when he was sat in the comfy chair reading his newspaper. Barney was part of the family, and entertained everybody catching seagulls which roosted outside on the window ledge. (He only did it twice and no, he wasn't encouraged). But things like that made him a bit of a legend. I'm still laughing about it now. (Both seagulls were unhurt - I'm not a sicko).

Life is too short to put up with miserable people who suck the energy out of life when you should be having fun. If it was me, I'd be off, - (and knowing full well they'd miss my dog when he was no longer there 'gate crashing the room' and 'jumping on the bed').

Believe it or not, another time, we had the reverse problem. Different flat, and one of my terriers. We got a new flatmate moved in, very house proud and festidious, and she took a real shine to the dog, and used to keep her shut in her room all the time. Don't get me wrong, the dog was a complete cuddle bunny, and I didn't care, if she was missing her own dog or feeling a bit lost in a new place, that was absolutely fine, - but this went beyond that, more than a little bit OCD. The rub was the dog was a real free spirited wee soul, and didn't like being shut in (bad history - but different story). It reached the stage I thought I had to do something, much as I hated to say anything, just in case she did feel homesick and did need a few cuddles and company. I actually did think she might possibly have had one or two learning difficulties, but I needn't have worried. One evening she came storming down the stairs and plonked the dog down in the middle of the living room with a look of utter disgust. After being shut in her room all evening, the poor wee dog had taken a dump on top of her bed. :shock: I hate to admit it and I'm not proud of myself, but I really struggled to keep a straight face, - but I did. For some reason she never really felt the same way about shutting her in after that.
(Now I knew my dog, and when she wanted outside to potty, you definitely knew all about it, - but that's what I mean this 'shutting in' was going beyond what you'd think to be normal). Funny how things work out.

Doesn't help you of course Yummybagel, but it's just a story confirming people have funny ideas about dogs.

You could try saying to your flatmates, look it's not working out, and I'm going to find a place where Bagel isn't a problem and free to come and go as he likes, and see if they feel guilty about it, - but my philosophy would be why stop there?, and just go ahead and do it. Life is too short, and better company is out there, for you and Bagel.

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Re: Might have to send my baby away..

Post by yummybagel » Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:03 pm

Flyby wrote:Not very helpful suggestion, but I would seriously think about a move.
Quite a story...Seems a little bizzare to me that she would keep another person's dog locked up in her room :shock: But anyways, I do want to move out. It's only been about three weeks, and although two of the housemates are great, I just think it's too much restrictions on Bagel, and therefore too many things that I need to worry about while I'm out at school or even when I'm in the apartment trying to study. These days whenever I hear Bagel's collar jingle I"m like in a "Bagel looking at a cat" mode. LIke....super alert...-ish mode. "Where is he going, what is he doing, I hope he doesn't jump on my roommate's bed." It's not comfortable having to worry like that all the time. Unfortunately, since school has started already it's close to impossible to find an open apartment and a new roommate. Seems like Bagel and I are going to have to put up with it for a year, until I make some friends here and until the lease ends. Sorry about the ranting. It destresses me :D

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