Problems unraveling

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MPbandmom
Posts: 1637
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:18 pm

Re: Problems unraveling

Post by MPbandmom » Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:45 pm

JudyN, in the US less expensive meats often have "vegetable broth" added. The only way to get meat that is just meat is to go higher quality and more expensive. Especially where chicken is concerned and normally less expensive cuts of beef and pork. (We won't go into the pink slime in the hamburger. Yuck!) I have this same issue with my dogs, but as we can't currently afford the higher priced meats for ourselves, the dogs are stuck eating the "broth" treated meats too.

Wilikie, if you have access to a Costco, you can get higher quality items for less as well as the lower quality items for less. I regularly buy chicken thighs in 6 packs of 4 thighs each bone in for 99 cents. Granted, this is with broth added. I also get 4 packs of pork loin roasts which are a little over $2 a pound and don't have the added broth. These I slice thinly and dehydrate, or they can be cooked and then cut up into treat size pieces and frozen in baggies for quick to grab training treats. (This cooked version might be too exciting at this point for your dog though, unless you want something as a diversion to toss away from yourself.) Gwd also mentioned making your own liver treats. Organ meats like liver, kidney, and heart are usually less expensive although you do need to watch that you don't feed large quantities. I haven't really found any beef that is less than $4 a pound around here, and rumors are that pork will be going up in price soon. I also get gizzards at my local grocery store/Walmart which I understand are considered muscle and not organ. These are generally very inexpensive and not given the "broth" treatment. My dogs will only eat the gizzards frozen, so if your dog doesn't go for them fresh, you might try that.

On the more expensive, higher quality kibbles, keep in mind that you don't generally feed as much per meal. So while the bag may cost more, it will last longer.
Grammy to Sky and Sirius, who came to live with me, stole my heart, and changed my life forever as I took over their care and learned how to be a dog owner.

Erica
Posts: 2697
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Location: North Carolina

Re: Problems unraveling

Post by Erica » Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:12 pm

We used to feed our dogs Purina - ~4 cups a day. On Taste of the Wild, they eat less than 2 cups a day. :) For us it worked out to around the same price per meal.
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14

Wilkie
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:11 am

Re: Problems unraveling

Post by Wilkie » Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:12 pm

JudyN wrote:Like I said, it takes time. Even running around the garden with your jacket is boring if you just walk off indoors and shut the door behind you. If she pulls clothes off you, make sure they're firmly fastened and fold your arms firmly. And wear something really tatty (raid charity shops?) that you don't care about.
I just let her have my jacket. I’d rather her take that than leave bites all over my skin. I got the jacket back after she got bored of it because I wasn’t chasing her. Luckily, it only had two small holes from where she grabbed me.
JudyN wrote:It’s a balance, as she needs to have an outlet for her energy. I'd play, but have lots of very short sessions, and have your escape route planned - but ideally, stop before she gets over threshold. Also, work on commands such as a really good 'settle' when she's in a relatively calm state of mind, and general impulse control exercises.
I’m not thinking too much about how to tell when she’s about to go crazy on me when I am being bitten and pulled around. I’m not even sure when she hits her threshold, it seems like she does it out of nowhere. One minute she’s running around calm and actually listening to me, but then she turns into Cujo. Maybe I should consider wearing only one outfit every time I take her outside to play, that way none of my other clothes get ruined any further.

As for impulse control, since she clearly has no self-control. Where is a good place to start?
JudyN wrote:For her main food, check out the recommendations on the site I mentioned earlier: http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog-foods/ I'm in the UK, but maybe someone in the US will be able to give you some ideas as to what's a reasonable price.

If she has tartar at her age, she must have had a pretty bad diet in her past Giving her some raw bones is by far the best thing for her teeth. I'm not sure why you say store bought meat has junk in it? That's true of processed meat, but if you buy 'just' meat - a whole chicken, a piece of liver, or whatever - then that's 100% meat with no additives. You can feed raw chicken as a meal, just cut into meal-sized portions, and maybe cook some of the meat to cut up and use for treats.
From what the manager at the shelter where I got her said, they feed all of the dogs very cheap food. They can’t afford to feed them good food, so it’s a plain bag of dog food. She has brown at the tops of her teeth where her gums are. I doubt the dogs get anything for their teeth and gums.

Store bought meat, at least in the US uses antibiotics among other pharmaceutical drugs and chemicals like ammonia. That’s unless you have your own animals and your own farm or you go to someone that butchers their own animals without the use of drugs and chemicals.

Wilkie
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:11 am

Re: Problems unraveling

Post by Wilkie » Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:19 pm

Erica wrote:We used to feed our dogs Purina - ~4 cups a day. On Taste of the Wild, they eat less than 2 cups a day. :) For us it worked out to around the same price per meal.
Sophie eats 2 times a day and eats a little over a cup. She was at least 40-44lbs when she got home, but because she has such a big dip in her back, she can't get fat. I'm really concerned about that and I'm not sure what to feed her or how much to keep her at a sensable weight. Her vet did say that she will fill out a bit more, but not too much.

Wilkie
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:11 am

Re: Problems unraveling

Post by Wilkie » Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:02 pm

MPbandmom wrote:JudyN, in the US less expensive meats often have "vegetable broth" added. The only way to get meat that is just meat is to go higher quality and more expensive. Especially where chicken is concerned and normally less expensive cuts of beef and pork. (We won't go into the pink slime in the hamburger. Yuck!) I have this same issue with my dogs, but as we can't currently afford the higher priced meats for ourselves, the dogs are stuck eating the "broth" treated meats too.

Wilikie, if you have access to a Costco, you can get higher quality items for less as well as the lower quality items for less. I regularly buy chicken thighs in 6 packs of 4 thighs each bone in for 99 cents. Granted, this is with broth added. I also get 4 packs of pork loin roasts which are a little over $2 a pound and don't have the added broth. These I slice thinly and dehydrate, or they can be cooked and then cut up into treat size pieces and frozen in baggies for quick to grab training treats. (This cooked version might be too exciting at this point for your dog though, unless you want something as a diversion to toss away from yourself.) Gwd also mentioned making your own liver treats. Organ meats like liver, kidney, and heart are usually less expensive although you do need to watch that you don't feed large quantities. I haven't really found any beef that is less than $4 a pound around here, and rumors are that pork will be going up in price soon. I also get gizzards at my local grocery store/Walmart which I understand are considered muscle and not organ. These are generally very inexpensive and not given the "broth" treatment. My dogs will only eat the gizzards frozen, so if your dog doesn't go for them fresh, you might try that.

On the more expensive, higher quality kibbles, keep in mind that you don't generally feed as much per meal. So while the bag may cost more, it will last longer.
What Kibble do you recommend?

bendog
Posts: 2188
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 7:42 am

Re: Problems unraveling

Post by bendog » Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:21 am

Taste of the Wild is a good kibble.

For now, if you can't predict when she will go nuts on you, do as Judy suggested and stay near the door, then you can instantly go inside and she will hopefully soon get the idea. Let her wear off some of her energy with cardboard boxes and things stuffed with treats. It's the most boring video you will ever watch but this is an example of a puzzle box I might make for my dogs: http://youtu.be/Nh0s8SqSbjg
This is actually just a really quick one just using bits of apple. I've already wrapped most of the apple pieces up before starting the video to save time. Often I put a box within a box, within a box, with toilet roll tubes inside for example, and a variety of treats, and usually a Kong toy too. I didn't have much newspaper so used a blanket stuffed on top to give Ben something to have to "dig" through, old towels work too for wrapping boxes in, or stuffing into boxes. Then I fold the top over to make it harder to get into. At least it might give you the general idea.
Here he is breaking into his box: http://youtu.be/lv1HkBX5V6A
It takes 10-15 mins for him to finish all the treats. If I include a Kong toy, and make it harder then it can last half an hour.

If you can do similar then that's half an hour that Soph isn't pestering you! She can have them indoors or out and it only takes 5 minutes to run round and pick up the mess after.

Wilkie
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:11 am

Re: Problems unraveling

Post by Wilkie » Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:41 pm

bendog wrote:Taste of the Wild is a good kibble.

For now, if you can't predict when she will go nuts on you, do as Judy suggested and stay near the door, then you can instantly go inside and she will hopefully soon get the idea. Let her wear off some of her energy with cardboard boxes and things stuffed with treats. It's the most boring video you will ever watch but this is an example of a puzzle box I might make for my dogs: http://youtu.be/Nh0s8SqSbjg
This is actually just a really quick one just using bits of apple. I've already wrapped most of the apple pieces up before starting the video to save time. Often I put a box within a box, within a box, with toilet roll tubes inside for example, and a variety of treats, and usually a Kong toy too. I didn't have much newspaper so used a blanket stuffed on top to give Ben something to have to "dig" through, old towels work too for wrapping boxes in, or stuffing into boxes. Then I fold the top over to make it harder to get into. At least it might give you the general idea.
Here he is breaking into his box: http://youtu.be/lv1HkBX5V6A
It takes 10-15 mins for him to finish all the treats. If I include a Kong toy, and make it harder then it can last half an hour.

If you can do similar then that's half an hour that Soph isn't pestering you! She can have them indoors or out and it only takes 5 minutes to run round and pick up the mess after.
Yes, 1:29 sec of wrapping apples was boring, but I really like that idea! I was able to get her to like her Kong by rolling and bouncing it around. She thought it was kind of cool, which makes me happy. I think she would like the box idea since she likes ripping apart cardboard tubes filled with goodies. I was checking out your other videos and I adore your dogs and the different activities you have for them are really cool.

I will check out Taste of the Wild the next time I go to the store. I am also going to put more effort into observing Sophie's behavior because she seems really unpredictable.

Wilkie
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:11 am

Re: Problems unraveling

Post by Wilkie » Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:19 pm

Giving cardboard to dogs should've came with a warning label because I walked into the room and found my DVD case ripped to pieces :shock: :evil: . Sophie was "sleeping" (she likes to pretend to be sleeping when you notice her) and as soon as I picked up the chewed box, she hid under the bed and refuses to come out. Now that I have given her cardboard, she thinks everything cardboard is one of her toys. The same goes for socks because I gave her an old sock and now she thinks all socks are gifts to her. My guess is that she didn't finish off the DVD case because she realized that there weren't any treats inside. Now I am not sure if I should give her anything that will encourage her to destroy my stuff because it resembles what I give to her.

rachel540
Posts: 515
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:31 am
Location: West Yorkshire

Re: Problems unraveling

Post by rachel540 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:31 am

Hi wilkie! I see what your saying it is annoying but sophie doesnt no it was valuable to you, i give pepper a box treat everyday, this stops her from finding something to chew (mostly the staircase!) when she is bored with nothing to entertain her. Yesterday she also shredded 2 magazines but it was my fault for leaving them within reach. Dont take away something fun and mentally stimulating, you need to puppy proof your room. Everything behind cupboard doors (i always have baby locks on all cupboards) or up high on shelves. Its not something that should be punished, take a deep breath, tidy up and continue as usual, its all part of being a dog owner. You're doing a great job :D
Pictures of Pepper viewtopic.php?f=31&t=14364

Erica
Posts: 2697
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:35 pm
Location: North Carolina

Re: Problems unraveling

Post by Erica » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:22 am

I second that...Marble used to chew anything and everything she could find, but now when she's bored she just raids the recycling bin. Mom tried putting the bin out of reach once...and Marble chose someone's shoes instead. :shock: we'd rather clean up cardboard than a shoe!
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14

Wilkie
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:11 am

Re: Problems unraveling

Post by Wilkie » Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:44 am

rachel540 wrote:Hi wilkie! I see what your saying it is annoying but sophie doesnt no it was valuable to you, i give pepper a box treat everyday, this stops her from finding something to chew (mostly the staircase!) when she is bored with nothing to entertain her. Yesterday she also shredded 2 magazines but it was my fault for leaving them within reach. Dont take away something fun and mentally stimulating, you need to puppy proof your room. Everything behind cupboard doors (i always have baby locks on all cupboards) or up high on shelves. Its not something that should be punished, take a deep breath, tidy up and continue as usual, its all part of being a dog owner. You're doing a great job :D
Would leaving paper towel rolls around and giving her a treat every time she finds one be a good idea or no? In order to puppy proof my house, I would end up living in an empty house. She accidently tossed her ball at the movies on the shelf and pushed them back. She thought it was cool and decided to push the other movies to the back of that same shelf with her nose :lol: Of course, she left the ball still sitting on the shelf.

She doesn't chew shoes, but she likes playing "Go find your stuff" by taking shoes and leaving them somewhere. Finding things that she takes is better than her chewing them.

rachel540
Posts: 515
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:31 am
Location: West Yorkshire

Re: Problems unraveling

Post by rachel540 » Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:12 am

Wilkie wrote:Would leaving paper towel rolls around and giving her a treat every time she finds one be a good idea or no?
If you want to do this with the aim to teach her the difference between cardboard tubes and your valuables then no it won't work. Anything within reach has chewing rights.

Puppy proofing means you need to be smarter than her, you said she steals your shoes, why are your shoes accessible to her? Store them in plastic containers with lids, or in a closet, or invest in a shoe rack cupboard (Ikea sell them). Everything needs to be put away and stored so Sophie can't get into it. If she can reach your shelf with her nose it's an accident waiting to happen.

Pepper is only allowed downstairs, we have a baby gate on the stairs to stop her going up. Everything is put away in the hallway, kitchen, living and dining room. We have to remove cushions if she is left alone (she's eaten 4 before we realised that!) Embrace the minimal look :D nothing on the floor, everything behind cupboards or up high out of reach. Sophie is still a puppy, Pepper is 1.5years and her favourite thing in the world is STILL chewing and I don't think she'll grow out of it. I took me the loss of my entire book collection to realise this! :lol:
Pictures of Pepper viewtopic.php?f=31&t=14364

Wilkie
Posts: 144
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:11 am

Re: Problems unraveling

Post by Wilkie » Fri Oct 12, 2012 5:20 pm

rachel540 wrote:
Wilkie wrote:Would leaving paper towel rolls around and giving her a treat every time she finds one be a good idea or no?
If you want to do this with the aim to teach her the difference between cardboard tubes and your valuables then no it won't work. Anything within reach has chewing rights.

Puppy proofing means you need to be smarter than her, you said she steals your shoes, why are your shoes accessible to her? Store them in plastic containers with lids, or in a closet, or invest in a shoe rack cupboard (Ikea sell them). Everything needs to be put away and stored so Sophie can't get into it. If she can reach your shelf with her nose it's an accident waiting to happen.

Pepper is only allowed downstairs, we have a baby gate on the stairs to stop her going up. Everything is put away in the hallway, kitchen, living and dining room. We have to remove cushions if she is left alone (she's eaten 4 before we realised that!) Embrace the minimal look :D nothing on the floor, everything behind cupboards or up high out of reach. Sophie is still a puppy, Pepper is 1.5years and her favourite thing in the world is STILL chewing and I don't think she'll grow out of it. I took me the loss of my entire book collection to realise this! :lol:
Sophie doesn't chew shoes, she just moves them to another room and leaves them there or uses them to build a "nest". She also has a habit of licking shoes so when I go to put them on, they are sloppy and wet. She doesn't chew anything that isn't wood or cardboard. Another thing Sophie likes to do is push her luck by looking at me while she does something she isn't supposed to as if to say, "I'm touching it. I'm touching it." Then she runs away after touching it. She's doing a little better with "Drop it" and "leave it".

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