Problems unraveling

[Wilkie]

Hi! Sorry if this is repeating what others have said but just reading through your post I had a couple of experiences to share that might help make you feel better.

No need to apologize! Repeats aren’t always bad, especially if I might miss something. Anything positive, including experiences and fun ideas are very much welcome. I need all the encouragement I can get right now.

Pepper is a Labrador now 14months and still chews like no tomorrow. Any new toys are often destroyed within days, if we can bend it or change its shape in any way it’s too soft – this is our general rule of thumb. Although she has been known to chew metal and has disfigured our oven handles!!

Sophie has a problem with stealing. She’ll take clothes, shoes and anything that’s on a shelf or table that fits in her mouth that looks like a fun toy. She even takes things out of coat pockets if you aren’t careful. She hasn’t chewed any shoes. She just carries them around and leaves them somewhere. I hope she doesn’t pick up a chewing on shoes habit! I am going to keep my fingers crossed.

It sounds like your dealing with the hectic first few weeks of being a new mummy and shock is starting to set in Everything that you are going through will change so quickly, this isn’t how she will behave for the rest of her life, the best way to deal with it is keep calm and accept it is normal puppy behaviour.

I have another dog and one passed away not too long ago. Sophie is a new edition and very rebellious. She'll look at you while barely touching plant leaves with her teeth and run before you can do anything. I think she thinks it's a game and she's just begging me to run after her. She does the whole, "I'm not touching it. I'm not touching it. Oh, I touched it. Momma is mad! I better run." My other dog is 13 and never acted like my new little girl. My family thinks that she was dropped on her head at birth because she's crazy. The other day she had a worm hanging out of her mouth and she slurped it up She keeps ripping up grass with her teeth and running around with it. My lawn has now been scalped!

The biting – if she is biting hands and feet in a playful manner, redirect her to other toys. To make her toys and chews more exciting than you I found rotating them helped, so have toys out for a couple of days but keep a stock of new ones or her favourites ones that you can use to distract her into a new game. (for example Pepper loves anything that squeaks and tennis balls so if I suddenly have one that she hasn’t played with before I have her undivided attention). I drew the line at biting towards my face, this resulted in me standing up and leaving the room the instant it happened. Wait 10 seconds then return and start a different game. You don’t have to shout, say no, etc they soon learn that biting like that ends the game.

You mentioned she is barking at you, then biting and humping, etc. In what sort of situations is that happening?

She displays a lot of herding behaviour and tends to get pretty rough, but never breaks skin. I have holes in my clothes because she pulls on them. She nips my heels, steps on my heels with her paws, she snaps her teeth, grunts (I swear she sounds like a pig) and barks whenever I don’t pay attention to her. She sounds almost like a Collie when she barks. I’m concerned that she might get so carried away that someone gets hurt because I can already see it happening. I don’t want her displaying these traits with children. The interesting thing is that she wasn’t displaying these behaviours at the shelter all of the times that I was with her, but after she was spayed and came home she started displaying herding. I am not a wayward cow or lamb .

It is a shame that you’re first week together you are having to limit exercise as I’m sure the whole stressful experience of a new home and the frustrated feeling of built up energy is not helping things.

Unfortunately, I had no part in the decision to get her “fixed” so I only get the outcome, which is dealing with a VERY bored, high energy pup.

On walks let her sniff, don’t drag her away just keep it at her speed (this may not be a stroll but a brisk walk) and read the thread on loose leash walking in Training articles and maybe you can start practising a few things. I 100% think you did the right thing when that dog approached you. Your dog needs to trust that you will take care of scary situations and trespassing on someone property for a couple of minutes isn’t going to hurt anyone. Don’t doubt your gut instincts.

It was scary seeing the other dog running and I didn’t get to see which direction it headed afterwards, but I did see 2 cats nearby so I think they caught the dog’s attention. I have no idea whose dog it was, but I wish people would keep their dogs indoors or at least secured in an appropriate place. I will definitely be checking out the leash walking articles because I'll need them for sure.

While your dog is on low exercise there are loads of games to play indoors. Play hide and seek with toys and treats, hide them a different levels all around the house and keep her encouraged so its fun and rewarding. Get cereal boxes filled with newspaper and treats, use cardboard tubes, anything she can destroy.

In stress mode I didn't think of these kinds of games. Thankfully I have people that can point me in the right direction before I toss my white flag.

Keep us up to date and let us know how you get on. If anything use this forum to vent your frustration – we all know how you are feeling, I promise you!

Thank you and everyone so much! Slowly but surely I am picking myself back up. Right now, Sophie is a little angel sleeping. She always takes cat naps before bouncing off the walls. I wish I had her energy.

[lucyandbella]

If she has collie mixed in her it is quite normal to show herding breed traits. As for not showing those traits around children...I am sorry to say it’s most likely going to happen. Lucy has quit trying to herd me and most other dogs with the routine of daily mental and physical exercise we now have. However, as soon as a small child comes around she changes. She gets such focused look on her face and even walks like a dog stalking prey. As soon as they run she is off nipping at their heels trying to turn them. Luckily I found this out with my cousins who are dog savvy and have tons of animals so were not afraid and knew to stop running. Now she cannot be off leash if small children are around. If we have kids over she is leashed if they are going to run around and play, I also explain to the children that we have dogs at our house and that everyone must respect them, one way we respect them is by walking around them, not running. If kids walk Lucy has no issue, it’s only when they run. Once they are settled down Lucy is great with kids and is happy to lie down next to them. The herding instinct also comes out with large dogs. I thought she was over this but last week I met two great danes and they were interacting fine. Then the great danes started to run and it’s like a switch. You can see in her eyes her instinct kicks in. She ran after them nipping at their back legs and then their shoulders, I was luckily able to call her back to me. I guess what I am trying to say is you can't train out herding instinct, though you can give it an outlet. And with daily mental and physical exercise the herding instinct can almost disappear.

Lucy loves trick training and agility. This combined with daily exercise makes her relaxed in the house. If I do skip a day walking, she will be horribly obnoxious in the house getting into all sorts of things causing trouble in any way she can. When I take her out for a walk the next day she bites at me, tugs her leash, barks at every single thing we see... you get the idea. This has led me to walk in horrible weather and when I am sick, just so she doesn't go psycho in the house. I think a lot of the problems you have is lack of mental and physical exercise and some problems will dial down a lot and some may even disappear once more is given. Like they say "if you don't give a collie a job they will find one, and it won't be doing something you'd like them to do". She may be a handful right now but I bet this dog will be the most fun and the smartest dog you have ever had once things settle down. The energy and drive used to scare me, now I love it and all my dogs from now on will be herding breeds. When she does something bad, just try to think of it as a doggy genius bored out of her mind, not a crazy dog ruining your house.

And one more thing, if she likes to carry objects this is actually great! She will probably like frisbee. And so many complex tricks involve carrying things. Many dogs have to be trained to use their mouth, carrying objects doesn't come naturally to all breeds. A dog like this will be able to be taught to put toys away, get you your shoes, put clothes in the hamper, throw out trash, get their leash, the list is endless. And if they do these little tasks all day long they will be less bored. Instead of stealing your stuff she works with you to put stuff where it belongs. I have Lucy doing all those things and now working with toddler toys like stacking cups and a shape sorter. She is also now learning to put a coin in a piggy bank. My other dog is leagues behind Lucy when it comes to tricks because she just doesn’t like to hold things in her mouth. I can shape her to pick things up, but she drops them quickly. So it is good that your dog likes to carry things, she can be taught so many tricks using her desire to hold things in her mouth to your advantage. If you haven't already buy a clicker and start teaching some tricks. I would start with a hand targeting and then shaking hands. I think those two are easiest to begin with.

[Wilkie]

The story I got at the shelter about Sophie is really strange and very frustrating, but I also learned last night that she doesn't like when people are wearing hoods. I already knew that she didn't like when people were in the dark and she's very aware of people touching her or waving their hands around. I'm thinking that she was physically abused and/or severely neglected. That's just my opinion.

On another lovely note, Sophie ate sand and you guessed it, she vomited!! Today, she was chewing on freshly mewed grass and dirt. The other day she was running around with a branch from the large rose bush and yes it had a bunch of sharp thorns.

[jacksdad]

... I'm thinking that she was physically abused and/or severely neglected. That's just my opinion....

That seems to be the first conclusion that people jump to. And while it without a doubt happens, IF all the dogs that shy way when people go to touch them do so because of past abuse that would indicate a HUGH, HUGH problem that society is choosing to ignore that extends beyond our dogs.

while possible that she was abused, much more likely simply neglected and/or poor socialization are much more likely. either way, how you approach is really no different. you have a dog that shys away from being touched, and is leery of people she doesn't know. to address this, don't put pressure on her to be touched or to meet new people right now.

[Wilkie]

If she has collie mixed in her it is quite normal to show herding breed traits. As for not showing those traits around children...I am sorry to say it’s most likely going to happen. Lucy has quit trying to herd me and most other dogs with the routine of daily mental and physical exercise we now have. However, as soon as a small child comes around she changes. She gets such focused look on her face and even walks like a dog stalking prey. As soon as they run she is off nipping at their heels trying to turn them. Luckily I found this out with my cousins who are dog savvy and have tons of animals so were not afraid and knew to stop running. Now she cannot be off leash if small children are around. If we have kids over she is leashed if they are going to run around and play, I also explain to the children that we have dogs at our house and that everyone must respect them, one way we respect them is by walking around them, not running. If kids walk Lucy has no issue, it’s only when they run. Once they are settled down Lucy is great with kids and is happy to lie down next to them. The herding instinct also comes out with large dogs. I thought she was over this but last week I met two great danes and they were interacting fine. Then the great danes started to run and it’s like a switch. You can see in her eyes her instinct kicks in. She ran after them nipping at their back legs and then their shoulders, I was luckily able to call her back to me. I guess what I am trying to say is you can't train out herding instinct, though you can give it an outlet. And with daily mental and physical exercise the herding instinct can almost disappear.

Lucy loves trick training and agility. This combined with daily exercise makes her relaxed in the house. If I do skip a day walking, she will be horribly obnoxious in the house getting into all sorts of things causing trouble in any way she can. When I take her out for a walk the next day she bites at me, tugs her leash, barks at every single thing we see... you get the idea. This has led me to walk in horrible weather and when I am sick, just so she doesn't go psycho in the house. I think a lot of the problems you have is lack of mental and physical exercise and some problems will dial down a lot and some may even disappear once more is given. Like they say "if you don't give a collie a job they will find one, and it won't be doing something you'd like them to do". She may be a handful right now but I bet this dog will be the most fun and the smartest dog you have ever had once things settle down. The energy and drive used to scare me, now I love it and all my dogs from now on will be herding breeds. When she does something bad, just try to think of it as a doggy genius bored out of her mind, not a crazy dog ruining your house.

And one more thing, if she likes to carry objects this is actually great! She will probably like frisbee. And so many complex tricks involve carrying things. Many dogs have to be trained to use their mouth, carrying objects doesn't come naturally to all breeds. A dog like this will be able to be taught to put toys away, get you your shoes, put clothes in the hamper, throw out trash, get their leash, the list is endless. And if they do these little tasks all day long they will be less bored. Instead of stealing your stuff she works with you to put stuff where it belongs. I have Lucy doing all those things and now working with toddler toys like stacking cups and a shape sorter. She is also now learning to put a coin in a piggy bank. My other dog is leagues behind Lucy when it comes to tricks because she just doesn’t like to hold things in her mouth. I can shape her to pick things up, but she drops them quickly. So it is good that your dog likes to carry things, she can be taught so many tricks using her desire to hold things in her mouth to your advantage. If you haven't already buy a clicker and start teaching some tricks. I would start with a hand targeting and then shaking hands. I think those two are easiest to begin with.

Sophie I swear has selective hearing. She ran away today! She was chasing a rabbit and didn’t come home. My mother was watching her or was supposed to be watching her for me. My parents wanted to kill her because she’s “bad” and ran away.

I don’t think she will ever be able to be around other animals because she gets in their faces and nips. Today she tried nipping another dog and she got scratched by cats. She’s too high energy. I suppose if she were tired out she could be social, but I just don’t trust her around other animals or people even though she’s friendly with humans. I keep getting different advice on how to “teach her whose boss” and say “No” and be strict because that’s the only way to teach her anything. I’m not really sure what to do exactly. Although I do think there is a better way to handle her.

Sophie learned how to turn on the vacuum today! She pushed the button after watching me. It was funny because she turned it on and attacked it. She learns at different paces depending on what she’s doing, but she is also pretty stubborn and doesn’t always do activities no matter how fun or motivating the activities and rewards are. You gave so many ideas on what I can do to help my girl and I will definitely try some off them out to see what interests her.

[Wilkie]

... I'm thinking that she was physically abused and/or severely neglected. That's just my opinion....

That seems to be the first conclusion that people jump to. And while it without a doubt happens, IF all the dogs that shy way when people go to touch them do so because of past abuse that would indicate a HUGH, HUGH problem that society is choosing to ignore that extends beyond our dogs.

while possible that she was abused, much more likely simply neglected and/or poor socialization are much more likely. either way, how you approach is really no different. you have a dog that shys away from being touched, and is leery of people she doesn't know. to address this, don't put pressure on her to be touched or to meet new people right now.

Whenever I raise my hand to pick something up like, a newspaper or throw her ball, she turns her head away and flinches and her tail goes between her legs and her ears go back. She'll bark at me. Sometimes she'll nip if her back is touched. The way her story goes, I highly doubt she was in a good situation. The original people that had her didn't want her so they dumped her at the neighbors, but they didn't want her either so they dumped her on the street and the police picked her up and took her to the shelter. Nobody wanted to take her to the shelter originally because nobody wanted to be responsible or get in trouble for whatever reason. That throws up red flags to me. She's just a puppy.

So many people hit and/or kick their dogs because the dog is being "bad". I know of a number of people that do that to their animals. That's why it's hard NOT to consider that as a possibility.

[Wilkie]

What are ways you get a dog to stop taking human food whether it's off the counter, on a table, or on a stove top, etc?

Scenario: Family get together for dinner. Sophie was following me to get her dinner and she made a B line for my brother's plate that he left on the coffee table. She stole his food. He yelled at the dog for a while and she ran into my room and hid under the bed with the food that had a bone in it apparently. I got a lecture from everyone saying that I needed to get Sophie under control and that I am her master, not the other way around. They think I baby Sophie just because I don't yell at her or punish her for being "bad". Sophie has been with me for over a week now and somehow when my family visits or when they are asked to watch her, they think Sophie should already know how to behave. They think all dogs should know what is expected of them right away. My brother also blamed me for not watching her 24/7 (how was I supposed to know he was going to leave his plate unattended?) She was only following me because she knew I was getting her food. My mother claims that dogs don't need to be crated because they have to learn to be in the same room with people eating (she doesn't understand that that's called teasing). I love my family and you can't choose who ends up being your family, but wow

[JudyN]

Your house, your dog, your rules - explain that your way of training Sophie is the up to date way and if your family want to come around they will have to accept that.

You cannot train a dog not to take unprotected food. Well, not every dog anyway - some don't steal, others are completely incorrigible. So you need to make sure they can't get to the food. Every time she manages to get some, it will reinforce the behaviour. So you need her to be shut out of the room when there's food in there (or trained to stay out when you're cooking, but that won't stop her coming in when you're not there), kept out of the way when you're bringing food to the table (we still often have one sit at the table to 'guard' while the other brings food in), and not able to pester while you're eating.

Once she realises that she won't get an opportunity to steal, she won't be quite so persistent in her attempts, but she's not daft - if she's happily lying on her bed while you're eating, if you get up and go leaving the dirty plates behind, she'll clean them for you

[WufWuf]

I've realized that other people will not treat my dog the way I'd like them too, you simply can't control everyone. So now when we visit certain places she must stay on lead or long line so that I can supervise all interactions. If she is off lead I don't let her out of my sight either. It's not always easy but I feel that it's necessary after a few scares such as people trying to feed her chocolate or thing her she was a bad dog for playing with some tissue on the floor.

[Wilkie]

Your house, your dog, your rules - explain that your way of training Sophie is the up to date way and if your family want to come around they will have to accept that.

I don't know of anyone else that will watch her and it's hard to keep track of how she's being treated when I'm not around. For example, I was busy and she ran away while my mother was looking after her for a while. There was a hole in the fence and Sophie chased a rabbit and ended up playing by the river. She was yelled at and dragged back home.

You cannot train a dog not to take unprotected food. Well, not every dog anyway - some don't steal, others are completely incorrigible. So you need to make sure they can't get to the food. Every time she manages to get some, it will reinforce the behaviour. So you need her to be shut out of the room when there's food in there (or trained to stay out when you're cooking, but that won't stop her coming in when you're not there), kept out of the way when you're bringing food to the table (we still often have one sit at the table to 'guard' while the other brings food in), and not able to pester while you're eating.

Once she realises that she won't get an opportunity to steal, she won't be quite so persistent in her attempts, but she's not daft - if she's happily lying on her bed while you're eating, if you get up and go leaving the dirty plates behind, she'll clean them for you

There is so much that Sophie needs to learn, but when moments come up that can be used as training, I do it. I just can't do everything all at once and with added pressure to make her into a perfect dog, it's stressful. Every time Sophie enters the kitchen she doesn't get a reward, but when she steps out of the kitchen it's a big deal. I know that she won’t always get it right or she’ll be quite stubborn and know what she has to do, but refuses. It’s hard trying to get the point across to people that she’s a dog. She’s different than my other dog and her level of learning isn’t the same and the way she learns isn’t the same either. She needs everything made simple to learn, like she’s learning hand signals and words. On the other hand, she likes figure things out so it might take longer, but she’ll eventually get it. My family doesn’t understand that dogs aren’t born knowing how to live among humans in a household, they have to be guided through the process and it’s up to humans to be willing to make sacrifices and change their lifestyle a bit in order to meet the dog’s needs. The end result is hopefully humans and dogs living in a home together with boundaries and mutual respect. Overall, dogs are dogs and they are opportunistic. It isn’t Sophie’s fault that my brother left his food unattended. If he didn’t do that, she wouldn’t have gotten a hold of it. Luckily she didn’t choke on the bone (it was a pork chop). I did however end up cleaning a greasy mess under my bed. Sophie is now afraid of my parents and my brother, but she’ll still go up to them. When I bring her with me for dinner at my parent's home, I tell them that she doesn't need to be in the room while we're eating because I am trying to remove temptation, not tease her by eating in front of her. I don't want her to think begging for food is okay. They don't understand that and think Sophie should sit next to them while they eat and not take food or beg.

[Wilkie]

I've realized that other people will not treat my dog the way I'd like them too, you simply can't control everyone. So now when we visit certain places she must stay on lead or long line so that I can supervise all interactions. If she is off lead I don't let her out of my sight either. It's not always easy but I feel that it's necessary after a few scares such as people trying to feed her chocolate or thing her she was a bad dog for playing with some tissue on the floor.

Sophie is on a 6ft lead. She pulls A LOT and I keep trying to see what treats will help me to regain her focus, nothing has worked so far. Sometimes she won't budge when she's on her lead. I'll be walk one way and she'll stop and pull me backwards. Trying to get her to go in the yard is a pain in the butt unless she really wants to go. There is no other place for her to go potty other than the yard. She was more than happy to drag me all over the place while it was raining really hard and we almost got sprayed by a skunk!

How do you get your dog to stay with you?

[Wilkie]

Today wasn't too bad. Sophie and I played a game where I hid a treat under a cup and she had to find which cup had the treat under it. She really seemed to be enjoying it and wanted more so we played for a while until she got bored. After that, we worked on 'Leave It'. I finally had a day where I could do some research and see if there were any training videos I could use. I had absolutely no idea that Victoria had those 'Teacher's Pet' videos until today! Sophie worked so hard on 'Leave It' that we decided 'Down' would be the next thing we'd try out. It took a while, but Sophie picked up on it really fast! Another shocker, she put one of her rope toys back in her toy basket and chose another toy to play with. I gave her tons of prays for putting her toy away. Maybe one of these days I'll make a game of it and hopefully she'll pick up on it. For now we're doing the basics. She's still young and doesn't have much self control; she gets pretty rough when she wants something. The methods used to train her before weren't too kind and gentle, but I think she'll learn that I don't want to force her to do anything. I really enjoy watching her figure things out and learn, it's quite beautiful to see. One thing I'd really like to work on is 'Heel' and not pulling or lunging.

Today she saw people that I know for a fact aren't very nice people and I think she sensed that because she acted like she wants to eat them alive! She growls, her fur stands up, her tail goes straight out, she lunges and barks. It's pretty bad. She's usually good with people, but she's very picky about who she's okay with and who she definitely isn't okay with. She's such a sweetheart overall, but her attitude towards these people is the total opposite. She had to go potty, but she won't go when those people are outside, she fixates on them. I had to bring her back inside and let her calm down until they left. It's a shame that she has to stay inside until they're gone, but she would rather attack them than go potty. I can't regain her attention.

[gwd]

You cannot train a dog not to take unprotected food. Well, not every dog anyway - some don't steal, others are completely incorrigible.

i had three setters......they all knew that food on the coffee table wasn't theirs. .......i was kind of in that mindset of not thinking i had to guard my food.

anyhoo, i had a b*tch in for breeding to my champion male. .....i'd made myself a peanut butter sammy and had walked into the family room. ooops, i realized i'd forgotten a glass of milk. i returned just in time to see her pained struggle to swallow it entire. poor thing, she looked at me as if i'd somehow booby trapped the plate.

[Wilkie]

You cannot train a dog not to take unprotected food. Well, not every dog anyway - some don't steal, others are completely incorrigible.

i had three setters......they all knew that food on the coffee table wasn't theirs. .......i was kind of in that mindset of not thinking i had to guard my food.

anyhoo, i had a b*tch in for breeding to my champion male. .....i'd made myself a peanut butter sammy and had walked into the family room. ooops, i realized i'd forgotten a glass of milk. i returned just in time to see her pained struggle to swallow it entire. poor thing, she looked at me as if i'd somehow booby trapped the plate.

I think some dogs pick up on it faster, but I still wouldn't trust a dog not to take food that they shouldn't. I wouldn't trust a child not to take a cookie or touch the cake that's sitting out in the open. Yes, they can be tought not to touch things, but they make their own choices and sometimes it isn't appropriate. Try telling a husband not to touch the dinner until everyone is there, he'll do it anyway. Look at the guy on 'A Christmas Story', he ate the turkey right after he was told not to because it wasn't cooked fully

[gwd]

I think some dogs pick up on it faster, but I still wouldn't trust a dog not to take food that they shouldn't. I wouldn't trust a child not to take a cookie or touch the cake that's sitting out in the open.

i certainly wouldn't trust mine if i were out of sight.......in the case of the purloined pb&j, i'd set it down and walked into the kitchen. i was not out of sight!

it was my fault, the girl i had in for breeding wasn't a house dog. however, while i had her for the week i figured she could enjoy the same privileges my gang had.