Vent!

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JudyN
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Re: Vent!

Post by JudyN » Wed Nov 26, 2014 7:56 am

When I was about 100 feet from the entrance to the heath this morning, a person emerged with four or five dogs off lead. A papillon came racing along the middle of the road towards us, barking. The woman roared after him, which of course he ignored. Then a red setter decided this looked like a good game so also ran up to us, also ignoring the owner. I expected Jasper to kick off, but he felt outnumbered and was actually very nervous of them, tail and hindquarters tucked under and ignoring two-day old stinky Stilton rind! :shock:

The owner came over, apologised, and dragged the dogs away, saying how they always seem to go for the nervous one, which I thought a little ironic :lol: I felt like telling her about the existence of a really effective dog safety device, called a 'lead', but chickened out and just said it was a good job it wasn't a busy road. Never mind the bad manners, how easily could one of those dogs be run over?

Given the range of dogs she had I also wouldn't be surprised if she was a dog walker. If so, I wonder if her clients know she doesn't put the dogs on lead when she comes off the heath and onto the road?

Still, it was a good reminder that Jasper isn't always a big grouchy belligerent bully - he can be a complete wuss when he thinks the odds are against him :lol:

Oh, and as we got to the heath, another person emerged with an off-lead lab who bundled up to the other dogs. I heard her saying to the other owner how her dog is normally very good. Normally, yes, but what about when there are other dogs, or a cat, or a gravy bone fairy, just up the road? Allowing even a well-trained dog to be off lead by a road is like riding your bike with no hands down a dual carriageway. You may be good at it, and you might think it makes you look good. But it doesn't, it makes you look stupid and endangers life :evil:
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009

bendog
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Re: Vent!

Post by bendog » Wed Nov 26, 2014 8:16 am

Person has a large adolescent female dog.
Dog pulls on lead and especially to go and meet other dogs. She "attacks" smaller dogs (not seen this, suspect bullying behaviour - she's fine with my dogs)

Dog goes to trainer who puts a slip lead on her and yanks it every time she pulls.
Voila - problem solved.
Trainer is described as "magic"
Owner raves about how much she adores her dog and would never hurt her, but this trainer is really great and dog "has to learn" and it is "only a little yank"

How do you even begin to explain that really she should be doing weeks or months of training loose lead walking and counter conditioning/LAT/recall training around other dogs, and potentially lifetime management (I still have to put Pops on lead if I see a dog she is likely to bully, although if we have enough space I can call her away and just not let them meet) when this other trainer has fixed it in 5 minutes?! *sigh*

jacksdad
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Re: Vent!

Post by jacksdad » Wed Nov 26, 2014 2:44 pm

figure a way to point out that if the yank if required more than a couple times, the behavior isn't fixed. I am trying this new tactic. pointing out that proper application of punishment should not require multiple applications and that in doing so you start risking moving from training to abuse. and that punishment by it's self leaves a void. we must first teach the dog what to do, then punish if the dog does not do what it was taught...but before you can take the punishment step you need to be sure you have proofed etc. etc.... and the wrap up with...if you have actually trained and proofed...is there a need to punish?

I also point out things like...what happens when your dog learn to jump over the static mat? and other gaping holes in the punishment only, quick fix plans.

Even properly applied positive punishment is not 100% in that the behavior can return at some point. BUT properly applied positive punishment should not have to be repeated, and repeated, and repeated, and repeated etc.. you get the point. when that happens the behavior has NOT been modified, you are now using pain to manage a behavior...and if the behavior continues...even the management is failed.

stuff like that. sometimes it is better to come from the "flank" or from "behind" in the "argument" verse going right the "how you could do that to your dog" approach.

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delladooo
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Re: Vent!

Post by delladooo » Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:23 am

Honestly I need a rant or I'm going to go insane.

I don't know why I agreed to getting a puppy because sometimes (like now!!) it's a nightmare and I don't know why anyone thinks getting to puppies is a good idea. It's just so frustrating, always want the toy the other has, she eats her own poop and he'll eat anything like he's starving! Honest to god grass, hay, a manky old sweet he finds under a car! Not to mention the constant "playing" where she essentially bites his legs and he ends up standing on her. She's currently in her box crying, the poor dog next door has been left in her cage again and she's howling and Laufey doesn't like it so huffs back :evil: Meanwhile I have uni deadlines that I need to deal with and I just want the next week to be over because end of term but then I'll be working too. I think this lack of sleep is going to be the death of me because it makes me so ratty :x

ScarletSci
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Re: Vent!

Post by ScarletSci » Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:50 pm

Um... Pixie has been sleeping on my bed since she was neutered. I thought she was licking at a filled bone thing I'd given her, turns out she'd managed to nick a small jar of Nivea moisturiser from the dresser, get the lid off, and eat all of it.

I've only really got greasy poos and an upset stomach to worry about.. right? I'll be up for hours, possibly all night, keeping an eye on her, just in case!

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Nettle
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Re: Vent!

Post by Nettle » Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:07 am

:lol: she'll be fine. Maybe a softer, younger-looking inside!

My Studdog once ate half a pound of butter on my bed, leaving just spotlessly clean paper. Not one grease spot, and he wasn't sick.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

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emmabeth
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Re: Vent!

Post by emmabeth » Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:46 pm

Dillydog ate a WHOLE tub, a really BIG tub, of Abbey Saddlery's leather conditioner and balm...

I emailed them to ask what the ingredients are and since its mainly animal fat, wax and fish oil they reckoned he'd be FINE but his bumhole would be the softest of any dogs, ever! *snort*
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant

ScarletSci
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Re: Vent!

Post by ScarletSci » Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:57 pm

Thank you! Turned out that she was absolutely fine, even her poo was normal :shock: Constitution of an ox, I'm telling you!

Now I've used that cream on my lips before, and I can assure it does not taste good. But she's been getting a lot of kongs lately, filled with cream cheese.. so I reckon she just kept licking, waiting to reach the pate layer :lol:

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delladooo
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Re: Vent!

Post by delladooo » Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:08 am

Honestly you would think I never fed him!
Just being trying to bash some bone for MiMi's lunch because she can't seem to get through solid bone, it went flying off the chopping board and the greedy menace that is Laufey Isaac Jeremiah Beelzebub swallowed it whole! Just have to try and hack some stuff off other bits in the fridge that were for him because everything else is frozen and now they're running around like lunatics because they want the same toy :shock: I just need to do some work, I won't have any next week so they can be as attention needy as they like, I just need today :x

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JudyN
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Re: Vent!

Post by JudyN » Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:53 am

I am FED UP with having a stressy snark hound :x

When I was on the sofa this morning he settled down on the floor in front of me, and I could tell he was a bit twitchy because every time I moved he lifted his head and looked at me. After a while I threw a treat onto his bed to try to get him to shift, but he ignored it - and just doing that had probably fed his suspicions. So when I finally wanted to get up, I suggested to him we went to the kitchen together to find something nice for him. He got up, but when I stood up he had a snarky snarly sweary moment, and put his mouth round my arm, though with no pressure whatsoever.

I could try different tactics like asking him to go to his bed before I move, but training him to do that and then expecting him to do it when he's in that sort of mood is like training me to put my hand in the fireplace when there's no fire and expecting me to do it when the fire's lit :?

He's been a bit off for a few days - most of the time, and out on walks he seems absolutely fine, and his appetite's fine, but he's been a bit whingy in the evenings, sometimes wanting a fuss, sometimes snarking if you go over to his bed to fuss him :roll: And he did have a runny bum one afternoon. Yesterday he also wouldn't go out for a morning walk, but immediately wanted to play in the garden.

But it isn't as if this sort of behaviour is totally out of character.

I just want to know why he sometimes doesn't want me to shift from the sofa (or my bed on occasion). What is bothering him? Because however I avoid it through management, I don't think it actually changes the fact that the stress is there.
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009

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delladooo
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Re: Vent!

Post by delladooo » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:11 pm

Well that was fun.

Obviously by fun I mean heartbreaking and I need to be angry about it or it'll make me cry.

I've talked about Luna a couple of times but I don't think I'll be seeing much of her anymore. It's just too painful to see and like talking to a brick wall. I couldn't stand the thought of Luna being in that medium dog crate any more as she's far too big for it and it's disgusting that they've never done anything about it before now, always under the guise of "having no money". Well, on a fb group about a week ago there was a "large" crate advertised near me for £20 so I spoke to my cousin and his girlfriend about it [[just to clarify I think I have maybe referred to them both as my cousin at various points]] but when we got the measurements for the crate it was actually a medium crate so no good. I asked if they wanted me to keep looking, they said yes so I did. A couple of days ago two xl crate appeared, also for £20 each. I couldn't get hold of them but as they were willing to pay that a couple days previously and one of the crates was quickly sold I agreed to have the second one. I go pick it up and then dropped it off for them tonight and it's all downhill from there.

When I arrive I get "wow it's huge, where am I supposed to put that" like seriously?!? Then they've been keeping her in the kitchen as she's on heat and got her nappies (why both are required I don't know. She still has no bedding, practically no toys and they've got her a slip lead because "it's the only way she doesn't rip your hands to shreds when you're walking her" and "it works" to which I had to rant that no, they're just going to create other problems and I'd like to see how he likes to be hung by it some time. I also noticed she had no collar on and apparently she's not worn it inside for ages and I doubt when she goes out. I did notice that her harness was still hung up with the lead so maybe all hope is not lost but in said rant I did say that they're not fixing anything and if she wasn't on the lead then she would be no better. I might have got a bit 'high horse' over it but slip leads - especially for pulling - are not something I agree with at all and, my cousin's girlfriend at least, knows this after my vent her to after a man declared I should use one to combat Laufey's excitement lunging :evil:

We then got onto them wanting to get a house then she can get another dog :?: :!: :!: :!: to which I just couldn't respond I was gob-smacked and I was saying how well the raw feeding is going for our two and he couldn't get his head around it and went "do what all the normal people do and feed dog food" to which I had to say I'm feeding a species appropriate diet that costs me no more than good kibble and is better for them as well as it is what people did before dog food to which he compared it to "home cooked vegetarian people" and people who eat fast food and they're all still alive. Apparently it's being alive and not having a good healthy life that counts. Honestly, not long after that I left as I didn't know what to do with myself without ripping into them, at one point I said to Luna (in front of them) "If I had space at home for you I'd take you with me". She, at least, was very excited to see me and gave me lots of cuddles for the gifts I went bearing (some treats from before the raw that Laufey didn't like and some dog food the vets had given us to try) and apparently they've got her toys and one of those treat stocking-things for christmas. For someone very against clothes, she's got a christmas hat and a scarf and had wanted a jumper (didn't have Luna's size). I suggested vet roll for bedding for her as it's relatively cheap and can be bought by the roll if she destroys it.

I seriously don't understand how they could look at her in that tiny cage with no bedding or toys and think it was okay when she's in there at the very least 6 hours 5 days a week, although I suspect it's closer to 8 a day. She was that excited to see me that she wet herself too. I'm not sure if it's behavioural or medical and I doubt I'll ever know. As awful as it is to say, I think I just need to distance myself and leave them to it. They're not doing anything that would be classed as an offence if brought up with authorities but I don't agree with it. The only way to describe them is bull headed and ungrateful. My cousin has never had pets (other than fish) before and has always been determined that what he thinks is right but what really riles me is that when they first got Luna and I saw her 2/3 times a week I had great chats with his girlfriend and, whilst she was useless with a clicker did seem to be a positive trainer and want to do right by Luna, even with limited funds, and now it seems she just wants to collect dogs to look at them but not have to do anything with them. Heartbreaking.

Theo400

Re: Vent!

Post by Theo400 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:13 pm

After yesterdays awful events I walked Theo today and this women crossed the road when she saw Theo and screamed and crossed over. I asked her what's you problem she said GSD are mean dogs and they attack everyone like the news says you cant trust breeds like yours :x . I was soooooooooooooo angry. so I said to her "well you must know if you watch the evil news that spreads crap about great dogs". I get so angry at people who judge our beautiful dogs I mean for goodness sake Theo saved my life and he licks his paws like he's a cat (I have one and Theo loves him). There are only dangerous owners either the don't train there dogs at all as there to lazy so have no control over the dog or the dog is not socialized properly and becomes aggressive to other dogs, or they train the dog to be aggressive and use the dog as a weapon to attack people and dogs. or people get dog breeds that don't match them and see a breed in a movie or TV show or if the breed is popular and rush out and buy one and no nothing about the breed they are getting so then cant handle the breed.

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Nettle
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Re: Vent!

Post by Nettle » Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:00 am

Ah, Theo, you can't fix stupid. At least you know you have a great dog.

I like GSDs but one of my dogs is terrified of them, having been attacked several times (attacks I thwarted, but she read the intent). So for some of us who cross the road, dive behind barriers or into the woods - it isn't personal to that particular dog but protecting our own.

You could feel sorry for that woman - she will never know the relationship that is possible with a dog, and will instead be confined in her own prejudices.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

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delladooo
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Re: Vent!

Post by delladooo » Fri Dec 26, 2014 10:24 am

My god that was awful.

Took Laufey and MiMi to the big park (they had loads of fun and were really good. We've discovered MiMi is rather scared of ducks and is getting better with people...
Anyway, we saw a stunning Great Dane which is quite unusual for around here, I've only seen 4 (including this one) in my life and they've all been recently, but the poor girl had a prong collar on!!! :evil: I didn't even realise they were legal in the UK and I can't for the life of me understand why she had one on. The man holding her also had another large breed (on a martingale collar) that I assume was a cross and both dogs were interested in saying hello but were very polite about it. Heartbreaking and has put a damper on the whole thing which had been going excellently.

I see many many dogs of choke chains and that upsets me enough because I don't see the need for him - martingales have their place although I don't like when they're just stuck on every dog ever (like a training class I went to for a short while) - but why on earth do you need to repeatedly stab your dog when you're out on a walk. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

I keep thinking maybe I should have said something but I don't think it would have done any good. I think I just need to buy myself loads of land and then never leave it, at least then I wouldn't see these things

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Nettle
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Re: Vent!

Post by Nettle » Fri Dec 26, 2014 11:17 am

They aren't legal in UK. However, I think you were very wise not to say anything.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS

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