Vent!

[Nettle]

There is one tech. who, one day, is going to get very badly bitten in the face


I do wish vet professionals would have some education on behaviour included in their training, though I suspect it would be alpha/dominance stuff if it ever did happen.


Poor Lucy must have thought she was going to get her brains sucked out

I'm just curious (not at all attempting to be rude) Nettle, what makes you think if they were educated in behavior it would be the pack theory? I'm just curious because all the people that are educated know that the pack theory is flawed, and I'm thinking the people who would teach the classes would have an education.
(I know this is all a hypothetic scenario anyway).
Thanks.

I suppose because every vet professional I've ever met (apart from two) thinks they know about behaviour and promptly starts spouting alpha and dominance at me. Same way I get the kibble is best talk, the neutering is essential talk, the over-vaccination talk, the inappropriate flea and worm treatment talk, the it can't possibly be thyroid talk..... and they know I am a professional behaviour consultant.

Even in a superb practice I know, where the vets are on board with modern veterinary treatment, I heard a vet nurse say smugly she's had her dog castrated because he kept running off

[jacksdad]

The whole "alpha"/"dominance" concepts are fairly entrenched in our culture right now. in trying to point out the flaws, I have had people react as if I was attacking their very sense of reality. I have had people react as if I was trying to push some counter culture subversive ideas. to list a couple of extreme and irrational reactions.

I find that IF the person or organization hasn't had up to date and sound behavioral training/education/study, they seem to default to the "alpha/dominance" models.

But there may be some good news in all this....

the idea that "our" way is "new" and a possibly a "passing fad" may be in error. It just might be the other way around....the "alpha/dominance" model might be the "newfangled thing" that is just a passing fad....

http://awesomedogs.wordpress.com/2014/0 ... r-trainer/

[JudyN]

I quite like the idea of being counter-culture and subversive

On another forum someone who keeps being attacked by their cockerel has been advised to pin him down - in effect alpha roll him - so he will see them as being higher in the hierarchy. I'm keeping quiet, because for all I know it could work with cockerels. (If not, chicken stew will be in their menu pretty soon )

[Swanny1790]

I quite like the idea of being counter-culture and subversive
(If not, chicken stew will be in their menu pretty soon )

It worked from Trish and I. It was a pretty tasty solution to the problem, too. I think even the hens approved.

[gwd]

There was a comedian, can't remember who, that once said, 'I wish map quest had a, 'avoid ghetto' option.' that would have been handy today. I had a friend call me and she was lost in downtown los angles. She was trying to get to Beverly hills for an appointment. I was able to navigate her to her destination but unfortunately, I routed her though some really sketch neighborhoods.

[DianeLDL]

Hi all,

I have been quiet of late, not that there wasnt anything, but busy. We are back in Maine so this incident occured at our house here.

My husband almost had a really bad run in with our neighbor's JR terrier the other day. He had taken Sandy for a walk down our street and usually the dog has been inside and just barked at Sandy through the screen of the sliding back door.

Well, this Wednesday, as OH was walking back and almost at the fence of our property, our neighbor's dog came racing full tilt from the side of their house, nearly a half acre away, towards OH and Sandy. Their dog was obviously off leash in an open yard (no fence). OH said that he did not respond at all to the owner Amy's call and being on the heavy side there was no way she could have caught up to her dog. OH grabbed and picked up Sandy but feared that the dog might bite OH himself on the leg. Thankfully, her dog didn't bite OH, but Sandy was so worked up, he scratched OH's arm. OH yelled that he would shoot her dog next time, for which he later went over (without Sandy) to apologize since she knew how protective he had been to the groundhogs that he had just yelled it out out of anger. He also showed her how his arm was bleeding from being scratched up.

Usually, when we are in Albuquerque, we know that they ket their dog out without a leash, and he stays on their property or we believe he explores and uses our property.

We know that they know we are back and had been back for a few weeks. So, now, Sandy hs become very wary of their house and dog. Since then, we have been taking Sandy in the opposite direction for his walks although going past their house is the nicest walk.

Wednesdat, we came down to Portland, Maine for the gastroenterology clinic. Yesterday, OH had his colonoscopy and today I had my endoscopy (for Barrett's Esophagus and my 10 year colonoscopy. The Clarion Hotel is right next door which makes it convenient but being tourist season and near the Portland airport, it has been a madhouse. Last evening, OH was bringing Sandy in afterotty and spoke with a man who during 15 minutes in the lobby had counted that same number of dogs. So, we have not yet been able to avoid any dogs. And tonight there is a wedding so it has been a full house. We are staying until Sunday morning. i had to use my points since the business kings are the only one with refrigerators, and since full only the two double bed rooms without refrigerator were at the special clinic rate.

But, we figured why all the dogs. This is the only hotel left in Portland and probably all of Maine with $0 charge for pets. Supposed to be one dog 50 pounds and less, but we have seen people with up to three dogs. OH just came up from putting Sandy in the car who after seeing another dog, just scratched up his arm badly and bleeding. He swore so loudly innthe lobby one guy dropped his suitcase. OH feels we are staying in the kennel or the Humane society. I do not think there is a dog show in town.

Well, I have to find our housekeeper. I have been trying to get service for several hours even after talking with head of housekeeping. And that is the reason OH has taken Sandy for a ride.

Diane

[JudyN]

Dogs: Their Secret Lives on Channel 4: Several owners of obese pets who can't understand why their dogs are so large as they know they aren't getting overfed. surprise surprise, Nana is feeding the dog treats, the people down the pub where one owner works are feeding the dog pork scratchings and fried egg sandwiches, and the fat lab in the multi-dog household is eating the two lurchers' meals. If you leave three dogs to eat together without supervising, and one gets fat while two stay skinny, is the answer not pretty obvious?

And the Iams advert in the break - Iams dried food contains FAR more nutritious ingredients, weight for weight, than wet dog food. Well duh, that's because the wet dog food is mostly water! As soon as the dog visits the water bowl, that difference will be completely eradicated!

[mansbestfriend]

Great show. Managed to view the "Dogs: Their Secret Lives Channel 4 documentary 19 Oct. 2013" episode/doco recently about how widespread is separation stress and anxiety. In their (I assume) representative sample, only a small number of dogs seemed unstressed when left home alone. Made me think about setting a couple of cameras to film my own dog when I go out to see *exactly* what happens. Hopefully there won't be any nasty surprises

[DianeLDL]

Judy,

Last year, we saw a chihuahua (small one, not like Sandy) who looked like he could just roll downhill he was so fat. We could barely see his legs. I felt so bad.

Then, look at some if the owners of obese dogs, too. I would say that they need to watch their food intakes and need as much or even more walking than their dogs.

I hate to say it that I have seen very fat young children too, with extremely obese parents.

That dog who was eating enough for the three dogs must have thought he was at an all you can eat buffet. Who would let one dog eat the food for another dog? It doesnt make sense.

Since my husband has had his knee and now sciatica problems, he hasn't been able to run his 20 miles a week nor run with Sandy. Poor Sandy doesn't understand why daddy is now walking more like mommy. Actually, I think I am actually jogging faster than my husband with Sandy now.

It is a sad state. We used to bring treats for our friend's dog, but stopped when we realized everyone else was treating this poor Boston terrier. They can put on weight so easily, too. We may not be the favorite visitors now in the dog's eyes, but her owner sure appreciates it now that we no longer bring treats.

So, good point you made about the poor obese dogs and owners who themselves were probably told to lose a few pounds themselves.

We have had to watch what we give Sandy and make sure that it is reflected when he is fed his food especially when we are traveling for days on end. He gets so little exercise since we are too exhausted upon arrival at the hotel, we dont want a walk. But, I noticed that taking Sandy for a walk when I am tired like that helps me too, since I sit in the car the same amount of time Sandy is stuck in his crate in the car.

So, when you see an obese dog, cat, any animal, look at the owner's body and see if he or she is overweight.

My two cents on the subject.
Diane

[Anatine]

We watched that as well Judy, I was surprised the amount of people who over-do the amount of kibble they feed their pups.
I swear most of those portions were two or three times the size of Quorra's portion, and she's not a small dog.
(Though I did weigh what I fed her this morning, and it was 180grams instead of the recommended 220grans, but I guess treats make up for it)

And Diane, I must admit, some of the owners where a bit on the large side as well...

[rnor1120]

I see some patients where the level of obesity is downright cruelty. The bottom line is that FAT PETS LOVE SHORTER AND MORE EXPENSIVE LIVES. Seriously, when a cat is so obese it can't groom its bum and suffers from chronic UTIs as a result - that's cruel. When a dog is so obese that it's blown out both of its knees and is crippled because the bum joints can't support the dog's weight - that's cruel. I have one lady who insists her dog weighs 120 lbs (55 kg) because "as a bullmastiff that's the nature of the breed..." It's not a bullmastiff. It's a black mouth cur (local "breed," usually about 50-70 lbs). You should have seen the look on the woman's face when I told her her dog was dangerously obese and needed to lose 60 lbs. Unfortunately, weight is a touchy subject, as many people think that a remark about their pet's weight is a direct insult to their weight.

[jacksdad]

I would suspect that telling a person their dog needs to loose weight would also be seen as an "attack" on their love and care for their dog.

you got a hard job there.

[rnor1120]

Jacksdad- either that or they blame their husband/wife/mother/children for feeding the dog extra treats. It's never the fault of person who brings the dog or cat to see me

[Nettle]

One way to help people who would like their fat dog to lose weight but just can't compute why it is fat "he only has..." is to find a much smaller bowl for them to use. There is something in the human psyche that makes some of us want to fill the bowl right up.

Some folks are astonished when I say our terrier has a heaped tablespoonful of food (or equivalent) a day. Oh that wouldn't be enough for Fluffykins, they say.

As a difference to the 'fat people have fat dogs' concept, I find thin people just as likely to have fat dogs....because they can eat whatever they want and stay thin, they think the dog can too.

[DianeLDL]

One way to help people who would like their fat dog to lose weight but just can't compute why it is fat "he only has..." is to find a much smaller bowl for them to use. There is something in the human psyche that makes some of us want to fill the bowl right up.[/]

Nettle, yes, we got a much smaller bowl for Sandy. And, he seems to let us know how much he wants, ironically. Although my husband and I grew up with the "clean your plate" instructions,

I have been a lifetime member of Weight Watchers for years, and one of the first things they suggest is to use a smaller plate and bowl. It is really interesting when actually using a measuring cup or spoon to see the correct portion sizes.

And, I think I read here when I first joined that the amounts they print on the kibble bag are much more than what a dog needs. (I think they just want to sell more.)

Diane