Vent!

[emmabeth]

I would put money on it that the westie isn't as pure as they think, and has some cairn history. They do have brindle, but the white gene (which I dont think is a colour gene but a 'switch off xyz colours' gene) in the westie is dominant and brindle doesn't 'work' on all colours either.

So you could fairly easily produce a 'westie' that carries brindle but looks westie by crossing to cairn and then selecting the white puppies to breed from, probably in just two generations youd have white westies that can produce brindle if bred to a dog that doesn't have the 'switch off colour' gene, which a rottie won't have.

[Nettle]

Yep, that's highly likely - but as black and tan is so dominant, I believe that the recessive brindle would have to be on both sides in order to appear in the pups. Therefore I suspect the unknown parent was actually brindle rather than carrying brindle. However I wouldn't bet my house on it, and at this stage the pups do have a Cairn-ish look to them.


I wonder if WHW do throw the odd brindle pup in normal litter, that 'disappears' the way certain colours in other breeds used to (eg white or fawn GSDs)? The WHW litters I've seen have been bred by enthusiasts rather than full-time breeders and so none would have been culled and all were white, but it's not a breed from which I've seen many litters.


How I love these arcane mysteries!

[emmabeth]

I did some lookin' up last night and it seems that the thinking re black and black and tan has changed recently, and that there are several types of black, the one that allows brindle is not dominant but, neither is the one that allows for tan markings... i think!

So a black labrador is a different genetic black to a black and tan rottie, the black and tan rottie carries a black gene but also the 'tan points' gene.


It gets more confusing when you realise some recessives whilst not truly showing up, will still have a visible effect (happens in snakes and horses I think) and then there are co-dominant genes and incomplete dominants...

[delladooo]

This b****y dog! Just took him out for his last toilet and he peed (getting the hang of 'go pee' I think so was pretty proud) but no poop, not a big deal as he doesn't always BUT get home, take his lead off and he poops in the front room! he wasn't doing his poop walk or anything!!! So annoyed we had literally just walked in the door!

Rant over.
Constructively maybe we need to go out earlier but for longer. The only reason I'm reluctant is because slightly earlier means a lot more people which makes me nervous. I'm fine with it being 'dark and spooky' because there is no one about but as there are so many take-aways around us, there's people until pretty late and the tend to make me slightly defensive. Gahhhh why won't he just pee in the garden?!? although if you ask my mum that's my fault too because I started taking him! Never mind that I started taking him as he was peeing in the house more than the garden.

[Nettle]

Go home, go in the house, keep him on lead, wait ten minutes, go out again.

Possible reasons for not pooping in garden include he doesn't feel safe there, so make sure he has a secluded area where no passers-by can see him. Some cheap screening is all you need, and I favour a roof over if you have a dog that doesn't like rain.

[delladooo]

Nettle, I was just so annoyed because I wasn't expecting it. Much calmer now He's only been in the garden once and I can't understand it personally. There's no-one to see him or upset him or anything like that. It's a small yard really with a slate floor (I've put down large flat trays of turf as well as just leaving the excess turf on the ground) and high fences. He doesn't have a HUGE amount of space but that's mostly because the rabbits all have large runs of their own but it is big enough for him to have a mooch round and a sniff, as proved by the fact that he does it multiple times a day Today he's going to have to go in the garden during the day if he has to go because I'm out all day and although my brother will be in so he's not home alone my brother won't (and I wouldn't trust him to) take Laufey out for a walk and not just cause an upset. He doesn't mind the rain and likes to go out and try to catch it so I can't even see as it's that.

I'm dog sitting Luna again this weekend and she should be much better at going in the garden (she does at home) so I'm hoping this is going to encourage him to go and then continue after she's left. I can dream right

UPDATE: HE DID IT!!!!!! I noticed he seemed to have learnt what 'go pee' meant when we were out and decided to try it in the garden, it took some time and I repeated it a few times but he did it! He got some dried liver for the trouble and we're going to keep trying

[DianeLDL]

Hi all,

Haven't been on for a while with the Jewish High Holy Days going on, so I am way behind.

Just saw this posting by VS on Twitter. It is sickening. They euthenized the dog owned by the Spanish nurse who died from Ebola. They wouldn't quaranteen, and it is not known if dogs can carry the Eubola virus. Here is the link, but it is on the
Positively main page. The nurse's husband is holding the dog. Protestors surrounded the home and tried tonkeep them from taking the poor dog. It is disheartening.
This Ebola thing has people crazed. And the US is sending soldiers into the area. To do what?

This article os heart wrenching.
https://positively.com/articles/despite ... uthanized/

Diane
Still in Maine where Sandy still isnt sure what to make of the leaves on the ground. And wishes he could chase squirrels and chipmunks. Leaving on Oct. 30th to head back to Albuquerque.

[jacksdad]

this is one of the scary viruses because there is NO cure. you are pretty much on your own to fight it...unless some break through has happened that I am unaware of. There is going to be a lot of error on the side of caution that may turn out to be unnecessary. sometimes it will be reasonable though, other times it won't. we can only hope people don't completely loose their head over this in panic.

as for using the military...they really are the best equipped and disciplined to deal with something like this. their nuke/chem/bio warfare training will translate nicely to this.

[gwd]

Several vents today:

minor irritation, I really hate it when I go to scoop poop and I flick a bit to vigorously and the turd goes over the back of the pooper scooper.

Major irritation, I was at a pet store today picking up some biscuits. There was a lady there with an 8 week old lab puppy and she was fitting it for a basket muzzle. She told the employee that he was just chewing everything. I grabbed my stuff and went to the counter to pay......... mentioned to the other employee that I needed to get outta there before I said something rude. ...........as I was walking back to the car I calmed down a bit and reasoned that being rude would have accomplished nothing except making myself look like an *ss. .......but that walking away also was not productive for anyone, especially the puppy. I dug in my glove box and grabbed a business card of a R+ trainer that is just excellent. .......I went back in the store and calmly told the lady that the muzzle wasn't the way to go and gave her the card. I also took her over to the isle with the bully sticks, kongs, natural bones, etch and then drug her over to the isle with clickers. ............wrote down a few youtube sites...........

I don't' know if she'll follow though but at least I made an effort and didn't put her off by my approach. I think she at least knew I was trying to help and not just being critical.

[Nettle]

Really well done there, gwd. But don't people disappoint you - not just the new puppy owner but whoever sold her the puppy.....

[delladooo]

That's a really good thing you did gwd. I'm not sure I could do the same. In fact I'm pretty sure I didn't do something similar when I saw a woman out with two dogs in mesh muzzles instead of basket ones as I didn't know what to say to not sound confrontational.

I'm not looking for any advice on Luna, but I really need a rant and I think this forum would be the best place for it. I feel like her owners have completely failed her and part of me feels guilty that I didn't try harder to give direction when she was smaller. She has no lead manners what so ever and even though they complain about it (she's pushed the 5 year old into the road before) they don't do anything about it. She plays very inappropriately with Laufey and steals any toy he has hold of (Laufey does this back but I suspect it's because she does it and he wouldn't do it to all dogs (never tested)). She's very excited to see me which I suspect is because she has a lack of attention at home. I know for a fact that at a birthday party she was shut in her (too small ) cage all day. She has no toys of her own at home because she's 'destroyed them all' when I was under the impression that what dog toys were for. I have no idea how much she's fed at home - she's free fed and I suspect just given a (rather small) bowl full when the packaging recommends 335-600g per day and when she's here (I'm giving her 500g and seems about right for her although I have no scales to weigh her) but she always seems so hungry and I can't feed Laufey near her and she shoves him out the way and stuffs her face. Friday night (at home) she got into the bin and so has had like symptoms yesterday and last night. I slept downstairs with them and she woke me twice to go out. I suspect she's not allowed much excitement at home because she seems to be an excitement pee-er - when I went to get dressed I came down to a huge pee in the kitchen and a pee by the door (to where I'd gone) although it's possible one of these pee's is Laufey's too. I think she has a health issue possibly related to peeing as she seems to part peeing without noticing, yesterday she was stood there, peed, realised and ran outside squatting I suspect she doesn't do as well as they think when she's left on her own as she's shut in her cage with nothing. She had a blanket which she chewed so she's not allowed anymore (???). I tried to get her owner into clicker training which clearly hasn't happened and in the early days she used it completely wrong anyway (I watched her try to click to get her to come to her, which Luna obviously completely ignored).
In all honesty I'm so glad she's going home later and I absolutely will not be looking after her again but I will definitely be giving some opinions when they pick her up later because there is no way she should live like this. The only things she seems to know well are 'leave it' and if you even seem half threatening (ie I was really annoyed at them but not shouting, just trying to get them out of the kitchen as I cleaned up) and she runs way cowering. But, she has no impulse control so won't hold a sit or a down or even a leave it. I feel like they've completely let her down and in many ways I have too.

tl;dr Luna stayed last night and I knew she had some behaviour niggles but this is ridiculous and I feel guilty. I suspect that if I had a week purely dedicated to her without Laufey she could be an excellent dog that's very driven and eager to please.

[Erica]

(picture of a puppy wearing a prong, choke, and flat collar all at once)
"Proud parent brag! We're ready to begin shock collar training!"

I want to cry, punch the owner in the face, and take the puppy.

[Nettle]

Argh, Erica, I'm right there with you.

I have a dear friend who is a lousy dog owner. She wants me to help her find a *certain breed* puppy. She wants it in a colour that guarantees it won't be that breed. She is such an awful dog owner that I wouldn't find her a pup if I was surrounded by them. She'll get one of course. Everything will "go wrong" as it always does. *Sigh*. It's all going to hell in a handcart and there is nothing I can do because she is totally in denial and won't do any of the things I suggest. Actually I gave up suggesting several dogs ago. And yet she is such a nice person - just has this total block about her dogs.

I am dreading having to go through this all over again. I try to meet her away from home so I can't see what she's doing.

[bendog]

I've had to watch my friend go from bad dog trainer to bad dog trainer in an effort to teach her 10 month pup to recall from other dogs.
She then rings me up to complain about the bad dog trainers who haven't helped (and probably made her dog worse) and who I warned her against in the first place.

I've recommended books and sent youtube links and given as much advice as I can (long line, high value rewards blah blah blah) but she "can't learn from books" (i.e. can't be bothered reading them) and "needs to see what to do in person"

I've offered time and time again to meet up somewhere and practice with her.
But of course I'm not a real dog trainer, and I'm only young, and these guys have years of experience.
And besides, my own dogs are naughty anyway so who is going to listen to me?

She basically wants a magic wand. Or a quick fix. Without actually realising that with something like recall, it is not going to happen overnight and will require a lot of effort, especially with an adolescent dog that she keeps putting into highly distracting environments.

[JudyN]

I've been listening to someone going on about how their previously (allegedly) underweight lurcher has now gained weight after changing her food to Bakers. I've pointed out that burgers & pizza will have the same effect on a skinny child yet it doesn't make it a good diet, but the message isn't getting through.