Ridiculous rules regarding dogs

[choirgirl]

As a dog owner I do understand that some people do not take time to ensure their dog is a pleasant and well mannered canine, but increasingly in New Zealand it is beginning to feel that dogs are unwelcome anywhere. The local dog exercise area is virtually unusuable as it has an unfenced train line running on one side and a busy road on the other plus it is not very large and while my two dogs are pretty good on recall I just will not take the chance and let them romp off leash.

Anyway, my husband has just returned rather grumpy from a walk with Max our spanial (the other dog was having some training time with me) and reported that he has just been threatened with a $300 fine for walking up our main high street, with Max who was on a lead (although male he has been taught not to mark in paved areas and will not toilet in these areas either). We live in a small village and Max is well known by shop keepers (in a positive way) and many will if they see Max stop what they are doing and come for a stroke and a chat, he is a firm favourite at the bakery (the owners little girl overcame her fear of dogs by being introduced to our placid boy) the antique shop he is invited in to sniff round, the pub allows him into the garden, likewise our favourite cafe does as well - not unusual for Max to be given his own drink of water and steak trimmings while we have our breakfast and the post office woman refuses to serve me until Max is brought in ( refused to process my mail to my father in the UK until Max was untied from the front of the shop and brought in).

I understand that no one wishes to tread in dog mess , nor have to dodge lunging dogs or those who are off leash, but how do we socialise and create well mannered dogs if these small but pleasant social interactions are made a civil offence? Bad owners will continue to be bad owners letting their dogs stray, foul and be generally naughty - punish the bad owners...

Uh rant could go on for days... does anyone else live in an area where rules regarding dogs only punish those who try to ensure their dog is a well mannered member of society?

[Erica]

Threatened with a fine for walking an on-leash dog? That's ridiculous. I can't say we have any ridiculous rules like that here...we have too few rules, tbh. When other states close puppy mills, they come here...very sad. We're getting better, and we have anti-BSL stuff in our constitution (VERY hard to change!), but I wouldn't mind a few rules regarding breeding dogs, and their welfare.

[choirgirl]

That's the supreme irony here, any idiot can breed many many dogs for big bucks totally unregulated and puppy farms totally exist especially in the small dog market - these get sold to pet shops and wow they are unhappy traumatised animals who need a lot of love and attention and usually do not get it. But they have banned all dogs from our one strip high street either on lead or off - they are even banned from beaches (in NZ beaches are incredibly empty compared with the UK- 4 million population in a large landmass and you get the idea) between 9 am and 5 pm (we regularly break this rule and just go to the deserted area of beach). dogs are not allowed off leash in most forrest areas due to kiwis and farmers tend to let stock wander so you have to be incredibly vigilent. But am just so sad and upset that our dogs can no longer accompany us on shopping trips with social interaction... plus we are supporting our local economy by not driving 10 minutes to the big box stores.

Also here it not an offence to keep you dog outside at all times and only provide very minimal shelter ... NZ can get cold especially on south island... but on the other hand there are so many rules regarding where your dog can go and the registration fees are high even for a desexed animal around $150 per year per dog for nothing... the fees go up if your dog gets into trouble... I don't mind registration in essence and really like the compulsory microchipping but honestly feels like you are a social pariah for having a dog - plus here you need a permit to have more than one dog - all neighbours have to agree and the paperwork goes on for days... so much so many dogs are just hidden.

[Ari_RR]

As a dog owner I agree. That is - as a hypothetical responsible dog owner of a well trained dog.

But in all fairness we have to consider the other point of view as well. If you have a small coffee shop and someone gets sick after having your coffee, they may well come after the owner, especially if a dog was observed peeing nearby, as this may be a violation of a health code.
If a dog, even on leash, somehow ventures into the store and bites a child waiting for his ice-cream - the store owner may again be held liable.
And the damages that can be claimed against those store owners are much higher then $150 reg fee or $300 fine. At least here in the US. But I suspect that NZ has simlar concepts behind civil litigation.
So, I am not sure that this is a case of "general public Vs dog owners". This may be rooted, to some extend, in the desire of responsible store owners to protect their clients and their businesses. And it is unreasonable to expect a storekeeper to differentiate between a "responsible owner/good dog" and "irresponsible owner/bad dog".

With that said - how do we socialize dogs? That's a very good question. But I suspect that some neighborhoods are more "dog friendly" then others, hopefully you can find an area where people are not too defensive.

I hope you will find a way around this, a dog walk should be an enjoyable experience, not spoiled by arguing with overly cautious local folks.

[choirgirl]

I understand a little more regarding rules in the US, but in NZ you cannot sue for personal injury arising from a dog bite or even an accident - we have a national compensation scheme called ACC which treats and even pays if you are off work 80% of your earnings.. as for being able to sue a shop owner it cannot happen as the dog owner is liable and would be prosecuted under the dog control act. Which is why i find this rule weird.. even in more litigious countries such as the UK I'm fairly ceratin that it would be the dog owner not the shop who would be prosecuted.. I understand regarding the peeing issue and perhaps have had an easy ride with shop keepers embracing him and watching and helping in his progress from scared to fairly confident.

As an aside a shop owner would not be sued if you broke your leg in their shop due to a wet floor ... the accident compensation people would send in people who assess the safety of the shop and may then prosecute the shop owner for negligence but personal suing cannot happen... Managers can be fined for workplace accidents and a scene of a workplace accident is treated like a crime scene - no win no fee lawyers cannot make money here (I kind of like it).

[Nettle]

I'm really shocked at these petty restrictions and it has made me realise how lucky we are in UK at the moment because there are plenty of people trying to narrow the availability of places to take dogs, campaigning for compulsory this and that....while criminals run about laughing.

[ladybug1802]

Goodness me....I cant believe the pettiness of it! Like Nettle I think we are really rather lucky in the UK!

[Flyby]

Some people just don't like dogs and it makes them a little vexatious in their general outlook. Traffic wardens are just the same from time to time, but to be honest, I have to confess I don't even like the idea of Amercian dogs parks. I like the freedom of walking my dogs wherever I like. Don't want to get political but it seems a freedom that's lot more practical and useful than the right to bear a gun.... I find it particularly frustrating that the locally economy can be in a headlong tailspin, but our elected officials are more concerned about the prevalence of dog mess in the streets.

There's no law of trespass in Scotland, and you can pretty much walk your dog where you like, provided you do so responsibly. There are byelaws for some places, kiddies play parks and cemeteries mostly, which I'm happy to respect irrespective of whether they are legally enforceable, because at the end of the day we've all got to rub along together and if I'm not wanted a particular place there are plenty other places where I am welcome.

I think the secret is know your rights, be correct, but be polite and civil when protecting or standing up for them.


There was a story a while ago about a vexatious traffic warden. A woman had removed her front garden to form an off street parking space on her own property, and started to get parking tickets which she refused to pay. It got more serious, she sent the Council copies of her planning permission, her deeds confirming the land was her own privately owned property, and pictures of her boundary before the parking space was formed. She still got more and more parking tickets, she started to suffer from stress, and it all ended up in court. The woman was vindicated, but the Traffic Warden not only lost his job and pension, but was also prosecuted for harassment.

Pity it isn't against the law to be an idiot. We might find fewer of them pounding our streets making a nuisance of themselves.

[bendog]

When I was a kid I got told off by an old man for walking my dog on lead down the road where I lived.

I was about 8 or 9 years old at the time and it was quite daunting and upsetting. My Dad was furious, especially because even at that age I was still always taught to pick up dog muck etc. We also got told off for roller blading (on the road not the pavement) down that road. Mostly it was just one or two old people who didn't like to let kids have fun!

We are lucky here to be able to walk our dogs almost anywhere that is a public footpath. Obviously where livestock are around (especially lambing time) there are signs asking dogs to be kept on leads, or under close control, but thats fair enough. In fields with livestock two of our dogs are kept on lead because they will chase, the third won't and has a solid recall as well so he goes off. Even our local chemist and pub let us take the dog in, so long as he's well behaved.

Only part of our local beach allows dogs during the summer (May-Sept), but again, thats fair enough because there will be often children playing and it's dangerous to them if people don't clean up after their dogs, and the less attractive area of beach is fine for dogs all year round.

[wvvdiup1]

Have you ever noticed that the places you used to be able to do things at and have fun are no longer accessible to you because a "few" people ruined it for everyone else? I mean, think about it: In my area, most people used to let their dogs run free in areas marked for dogs, however, over the last ten or so years, there seems to have been a lot of rules and regulations added to the current ones, needless to say, because of the rise in legal actions/lawsuits against dog owners.

Last week, I had my dog, Karma, tied to her "runner", a tie-cable hooked to a line on poles that allows her to run the primeter of my property. Would you believe someone called the dog warden, who came out and saw my dog running within my property boundaries, on her "runner", and fined me for it? Well, this morning I went to my hearing and won my case by showing evidence that my dog was on my property, I still had control of her, and showed relevant laws or regulations regarding this case.

[jacksdad]

does anyone else live in an area where rules regarding dogs only punish those who try to ensure their dog is a well mannered member of society?

rules, laws, regulations, restrictions etc. will ONLY ever affect and be followed by those who are already making the choice to be responsible or law abiding. they will never stop the criminal (otherwise they wouldn't be criminals) or the irresponsible.

Unfortunately there does seem to be a lot of people out there who choose to ignore this and make life miserable for those who aren't the problem.

[Flyby]

One of the meanest things I ever saw was in Edinburgh, while walking through the Meadows pretty close to the Hospital. It was Spring, and there were loads of daffodils out, and lots of students and people enjoying the sunshine. There was one man with his little daughter, at a guess she'd be 5 or 6, sitting there picking some of the flowers. (Do the math - Dad and daughter picking flowers outside a hospital...). Anyway, I was a few steps past when I heard a man loudly berating the kid for stealing the flowers which didn't belong to her. EVERYBODY turned around to look to see the poor wee lass dropping her flowers and running to her Dad in floods of tears. I'm sure the man will never know how close he came to being felled by the kids furious father, but of course, he couldn't in front of his kid.

It wasn't very pleasant to witness, but as long as I live, I hope I never become such mean, miserable and downright nasty person that I cannot bear to watch a little girl picking flowers in a public meadow.

[thepennywhistle]

Anyway, I was a few steps past when I heard a man loudly berating the kid for stealing the flowers which didn't belong to her. EVERYBODY turned around to look to see the poor wee lass dropping her flowers and running to her Dad in floods of tears. I'm sure the man will never know how close he came to being felled by the kids furious father, but of course, he couldn't in front of his kid.

I also note that Mr. Defender of Justice there chose to bully a small child and totally ignored her father. That's a coward
and a bully. The world is becoming such a mean place.

On the other hand, I was outside the ring with my dog at the only dog show I've ever entered a dog in. It was pouring,
and everyone who had classes upcoming were huddled under a couple of tents and on the pine shavings put down to
keep feet dry. I heard a man telling someone off in the ugliest of growing tones, that the party addressed had better
just sit down and stay here while he got their number, and he expected them to be RIGHT THERE when he came back.
Understand? I was horrified and turned around quickly (along with everyone else) to see who had the nasties in gear
to sound so hateful. What I found was a tiny blond girl holding the leash of a huge Doberman. Both of them looked up
at this man blankly, sort of shrugged, and the Dobie sat down in the middle of ring traffic and stayed. To my surprise
it turned out that the man was giving those orders to the dog. Dog sat, licked muzzle nervously, then leaned protectively
against his little girl. The child, maybe 4 years old, was quite unconcerned. She patted the dog on the shoulder, sat
down beside him and began to sing Jingle Bells.

Some people just seem to have the need to bully somebody, whether it's bullying polite dog walkers, young flower pickers, or anything else that's helpless. So sad

[Nettle]

I am a hateful person then, because I think allowing a child to pick flowers that aren't on its home property or with permission from the owner is giving the wrong message about respect. It is theft. Father could have taken little girl to a florist and purchased flowers (doesn't have to be many) and taught her a useful protocol instead.

I've had children picking flowers out of my garden in the days when I had one, and I think allowing it or saying aaaah she's only five or look it's for someone in the hospital is glossing over what it is teaching that child.

[thepennywhistle]

My objection is in the fellow attacking the child picking the flowers rather than the parent supervising the event.