Chase drive Vs Prey Drive

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ladybug1802
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Chase drive Vs Prey Drive

Post by ladybug1802 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:05 am

I have just read a post by Jacksdad which mentions chase drive as opposed to prey drive.....Dylan definitely is more 'chase drive' as he does run after scents, but also small furries, but he always returns after a few minutes, and if the small furry/deer disappears he loses interest. So that to me indicates chase rather than prey drive - is that correct?

Now I have laid a scent before in my parents garden (mine is far too small!) using some smelly bit of cheese and sausage put in a spray bottle with warm water....and he enjoys it. But what else can I do?

Also, Dylan's recall is pretty good most of the time, but when he is on a scent or has chased after a squirrel, I dont bother calling because he does...not....listen! Not one bit.....I can often see him bounding through the woods and have tried blowing the whistle or calling once....he doesnt hear as he is too intent on what he is doing!¬ I would love to be able to improve his recall so he would come back mid chase, but we do recall training on our walks, changing the reward from food, his squeaky ball or a good old belly rub.....but am nto sure what the next step is to try and improve it??

At the end of the day its not the end of the world.....I never walk anywhere near roads, and he is only ever gone for a few minutes then returns. But still would like to know any good tips!

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Nettle
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Re: Chase drive Vs Prey Drive

Post by Nettle » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:17 pm

There are very few dogs that can be called off mid-chase, and most of them are border collies. Once the chase is on, everything else shuts down. If it were otherwise, they'd never catch their dinners :lol: So - go with the art of the possible, and don't let a chase start if you aren't sure he'll come back, or if you aren't able to deal with the result if he does catch something.

You can stop most dogs as they launch by teaching the STOP whistle, but once they are running - that's it.

You can make the scent trails progressively harder and longer, and some dogs like to chase a toy furry on a flirt pole.
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ladybug1802
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Re: Chase drive Vs Prey Drive

Post by ladybug1802 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:21 pm

Ah yes they would go hungry!! Dylan has never caught anything.....which I am surprised about as bunnies often dont go THAt fast. Which makes me think he likes the chase rather than the actual 'need to get food'...but I could well be wrong!

I have been teaching him the stop whistle, although at the moment he will only stop and sit if I blow the stop whistle (one peep) if he is not TOo distracted. Most of the time I blow the whistle and hold my hand up, and he now sits....but we need to move this on now somehow i think! He would no way listen to this if he was sniffing or chasing, as you say, so I need to try and improve his 'stop whistle skill'! :D

jacksdad
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Re: Chase drive Vs Prey Drive

Post by jacksdad » Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:27 pm

Since Jacks off leash time is in safe places to chase squirrels and I know he will come back, I personally just let him go. he is a pathetic hunter so I am not overly worried about him actually catching anything. particularly if it's a "target rich" environment. to many choices (which one do I chase?) "paralyzes" him briefly and by the time he makes a choice it's too late to be able to actually catch anything. Soon as they dive into their hole if a ground squirrel he come running back to me with a big old doggy grin. with cats if they run..."OH BOY...the chase is on and he is a bit more intense for him. But if they don't budge, he hits the breaks and tries to exchange butt sniffs...which the cats of course find very rude.

On leash if my timing is right, I can redirect his attention most of the time with very little effort. if my time is off and he "lunges" hitting the end of the leash sometimes is enough to end things and we move on.

his buddy Luna would start digging and continue the chase the squirrel into the ground. She will also start digging for gophers and moles simply by smell. Also, once she locks in it is VERY difficult to regain her attention even if she hasn't moved a muscle. She also doesn't care about hitting end of the leash if she is "on the hunt" and she will also stalk, creep, be "stealthy". There there is Jack...charge right in looking for the chase.

a week or so ago she started to stalk something up the berm along side the road...Jack caught "wind" of this and just charged right in, it was by funny and educating to see the difference side by side. You could almost "see" Luna shaking her head and rolling her eyes and giving a "jack, jack, jack....your doing it all wrong" sigh.

ladybug1802
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Re: Chase drive Vs Prey Drive

Post by ladybug1802 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:30 pm

Ah yes Dylan is very much like Jack.....loves chasing these furries (or deer) but loses interest very fast when they get out of sight or go up a tree or something!! And on lead, I can just say 'leave it' if he sees a squirrel run across the path, and he looks, then that is it and he doesnt bother anymore!

jacksdad
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Re: Chase drive Vs Prey Drive

Post by jacksdad » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:47 pm

here is an older thread on this very topic. in it Emma describes the difference pretty clearly.

It was this thread that helped me read Jacks type of "drive" verse Luna's type of "drive" more accurately.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7779&start=0

Sarah83
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Re: Chase drive Vs Prey Drive

Post by Sarah83 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 7:05 pm

Also, once she locks in it is VERY difficult to regain her attention even if she hasn't moved a muscle. She also doesn't care about hitting end of the leash if she is "on the hunt" and she will also stalk, creep, be "stealthy".
This is Rupert. Once he's spotted his prey he's totally and utterly focused on it to the exclusion of everything else. He'll creep up on it until he's within a certain distance and then charge. He usually bloody catches it too if he's off leash and unmuzzled. If he loses sight he'll go backwards and forwards sniffing and searching for it until I catch him. If it goes up a tree he'll wait at the bottom of the tree (and he will remember this tree and go back to it each time for MONTHS after treeing something) and if it goes underground...well those paws were made for digging apparently.

Rupe isn't overly interested in chasing a ball or any other toy. He'll do it a few times but he's not very enthusiastic about it.

emmabeth
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Re: Chase drive Vs Prey Drive

Post by emmabeth » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:21 pm

I think with Dylan, you could probably, with a bit of luck and a lot of good management, teach him that YOU know best, kind of like Simon Says - if simon says ok, go, then its going to be a good chase, if simon says no, then it wont be.

The art to this is tricky to explain though, lots and lots of management so he never gets to chase something great (ie, a lone deer in the middle of a wide open flat heath that'd be a GREAT chase, whereas a bunny 50 yards from the hedgerow would be rubbish, almost instantly failure.)

And then, a lot of pre-mack stuff like control unleashed (if you have the book/dvd etc), where YOU provide and facilitate chases that are HIGHLY rewarding so that in comparison the ones he gets to do 'wild' are rather unfulfilling.

It is pretty much teh opposite of what you would do with a young lurcher pup - with them because you would want htem to grow up wise and sensible, only going for quarry they are confident they can get, you would only ALLOW them to go for quarry they stood a high chance of getting, ie, setting them up for success. So you would send the young dog after the easy prey, the young foolish rabbit a long way out from home.

The fastest way to get a lurcher pup, even one from lines with the strongest prey drive going, to quit, is to repeatedly allow them to fail, sending them after canny, wise old rabbits who are close to home and as fast as the wind.

So you would be doing the opposite - prevent the good chases and 'allow' the ones that will be unrewarding, meanwhile work on devising a BRILLIANT game for him instead using a toy that only comes out for walks (say, a tennis ball with a rabbit skin coat sewn over it, thrown from a chuckit, or a game with a 'fox on a stick' type toy).

As I say though, its a very difficult knack to get, it requires a really good knowledge not only of your dog and how he learns and what puts him off and what drives him on, but also of the behaviour of various types of quarry and how that changes depending on where they are, time of day, time of year etc etc.
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant

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Nettle
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Re: Chase drive Vs Prey Drive

Post by Nettle » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:00 am

ladybug1802 wrote: bunnies often dont go THAt fast.
Don't you believe it :lol: prey animals go as fast as they are pressed, so when chased by a slower type of dog, they don't waste energy but go just as fast as they need to be safe. Put a whippet behind them and BOY do they shift!!
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

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ladybug1802
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Re: Chase drive Vs Prey Drive

Post by ladybug1802 » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:47 am

Ah yes I can imagine actually!! Maybe Dylan LOOKS fast when darting about in the woods, but in reality he is slooww!!

He had a ball this morning running about in the woods after goodness know what! When I can see him in the woods he seems to just be going backwards and forwards after scents....then he gave me slight anxiety as he was gone a few mins more than normal! I couldnt see him, could hear no rustling in the trees, and just stood there like a lemon waiting! Started getting a small amount of worry rise up inside me, then he appeared from round the corner running along rather out of breath!

Little cherub...... :roll:

jacksdad
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Re: Chase drive Vs Prey Drive

Post by jacksdad » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:31 pm

had Jack back out at the high school today, the one with all the ground squirrels. MAN can those squirrels move. one poor little guy was moving SO FAST he miss judged his hole under a shed and smacked in the the wall and bounced backwards. But recovered before Jack could get to him.

Erica
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Re: Chase drive Vs Prey Drive

Post by Erica » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:07 pm

Very interesting! I took our GSD, Opal, outside one night, off-leash because it's dark and I don't want to walk in our yard for fear of big spiders. Blech! Anyways, we were both surprised when a herd of deer took off! Opal started chasing them, but I just called her name and clapped twice and she came back...big surprise to me! I thought I was going to have to chase HER! The next day I got a light-up collar that we use at night, so we can see her in the woods/yard. She listens a lot better at night...hehe.

I'm fairly certain she's more chase drive than prey drive. Our back door neighbors and good friends have a little terrier mix. They make perfect playmates - he likes being chased, and Opal likes to chase! One time they ran around a car so much they left a crop circle in the gravel. Silly dogs! They find something to make a race course out of, whether it's a bush, the fish pond, the bench, or us...
Delta, standard poodle, born 6/30/14

JudyN
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Re: Chase drive Vs Prey Drive

Post by JudyN » Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:21 am

That's funny, I was just thinking abut this this morning!

Chase drive is what Jasper does with squirrels. It's fun, but the darned things keep climbing trees so he doesn't always bother. He once took off after a squirrel when he was on a 6' lead but the moment there was any tension on the lead he stopped. I didn't get my arm wrenched in the slightest and I was gobsmacked at how fast his reaction must have been - I think that's fairly unusual for a sighthound though.

If he spots and then takes after a rabbit or, particularly, a deer, it's a different matter. It's work, it's vocation, it's what he lives and dies for. He is in a different level of consciousness entirely, and the 'rush' he gets is maybe comparable what someone would get from herion or cocaine - not that I've ever had either, but it's a way of describing the intensity I can see in him. When he comes back from a chase he is completely spent - he lies on his side panting while we rub water on him to try to cool him down. He's also often covered in scratches as he will run straight through anything in his way without sensing any pain at all.

I'm working on improving his recall when he's at the stage where he thinks he may have spotted something - he's not bad now, but even gaining a few more milliseconds could be worth it. But once he's gone? I can try, but I very much doubt I'll ever stand a chance.
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009

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