Cesar Millan

[MiaRose100907]

I don't usually watch his show, I usually watch Victoria's. But, I wanted to see what his show was all about. There are some things I liked but didn't like.
I wanted to get other's opinions on his show... What does everyone else think of the methods he uses? Do you use some of his methods on your dogs?

[Sarah83]

I think he has no idea about how to read dogs body language, uses outdated theories and methods and I personally wouldn't let him anywhere near my dog. Some of what he does is disgusting and downright cruel.

However, I do agree with what he says about dogs needing exercise and discipline as well as affection although I think we'd have a difference of opinon on what discipline means.

[ladybug1802]

I have to say that I dont find all the things he does bad.....yes a lot of things he does, like the leash jerks, alpha rolls etc I find awful. But I think his ideas sometimes seem justified.....as Sarah says, a lot of the people on the show dont walk their dogs, and dont do anything with them, but he instills in them the importance of exercise, both mentally and physically. Although I do think he takes it to extremes sometimes - I think taking your dog on long hikes with a backpack on to exhaust it is not quite necessary!

But I used to watch his shows, and there were only a few things that I found bad.....so i think some of his theories are good, but need to be set aside form his outdated, dominance based ones!

[Mattie]

There is quite a lot about him on here, do a search.

Abuse is abuse even if it only happens once, he may have some good points but the amount of abuse he does to the dogs over rides the good. I will try and explain a bit more.

He uses choke chains, puts them at the top of the neck were a dog is a lot more sensitive then he pulls them tight and cuts of the air way until, in some cases, the dog colapses before he releases the airway, he then says they dog has submitted to him.

He regularly pokes a dog, then says it is dog talk and dogs are fine with it, a poke is a poke and they hurt, you can tell they hurt by the dog's reaction. We don't see what has gone before but from the ones I have seen it has been obvious that the dog has learnt that being poked hurts before we see him working with the dog.

A kick is a kick, doesn't matter if it is with the toe or heel, it still hurts the dog and a kick can break a dog's ribs.

He uses shock collars, he doesn't tell us he has a shock collar on the dog and hids the control in his hand, you can see it if you look for it. You can tell by the dog's reaction when he has been zapped because of how he goes. If you look into these collars and look at the places were they are used properly you will see that this isn't the way to use these collars, a dog should not jump when he has been zapped.

Now for the concotion he has made to control dogs, it is a neck brace which makes it difficult for a dog to bend his neck, what you don't see is the top, it has a rope type choke chain which works as a choke chain and he cuts the dogs airway off with it.

There are more but I am not saying any more, these are more than enough to put me really against him. If people stopped watching him because of these then he would stop using them.

You only have to see what happened to Cotton to see how his methods work, he was just a boistrous dog who wasn't exercised, we could see this dog changing as he worked with him, he was telling him that he was confused and throwing out lots of calming signals but the more he done the more aggressive he was with the dog. Move on some time and Cotton is in the news because he has had all his teeth filed down because of his biting.

Someone said that over 90% of the dogs he works with are pts because their aggression gets a lot worse, I don't know if that is true or not but it wouldn't surprise me if it was.

Yes he is getting owners to exercise their dogs but to me that doesn't make up for the abuse he does to the dogs. Then we have all the idiots who try to mimic him.

[ladybug1802]

Oh lord Mattie I didnt realise half of this......certainly didnt realise he uses shock collars which has made me look at him in a worse light now.

And some poor dog had his teeth filed down??

Oh i feell sad now for these dogs

[tansox]

Always going to provoke a reaction - good or bad!

The media will always highlight bad points, that's what they do. I don't agree with everything he does but I like some things and statistics are nothing - anyone can make up statistics, and they do, to sell newspapers, make you watch tv shows. etc.

There are good and bad in EVERY dog trainer, you/we just need to take what we want and disregard what we don't want. No one makes us watch him! Every dog is different and should be treated accordingly, that's why I watch lots of different dog training shows, read lots of books etc.

Electric collars - not a fan, but you need to be an expert on timing (as with all dog training, timing is very important). I've seen a dog (a border terrier) that has chased and killed a sheep, taken to a trainer who used an electric collar, and now that dog doesn't even look at the sheep but stays very close to it's owner. It took one zap and that dog now can be walked safely. As I've said, I'm not a fan, but on this occasion it worked, so I wouldn't rule it out for serious problems. The secret is to not allow your dog get himself into that situation in the first place!

The Alpha roll. My lurcher did that to my Rottie puppy - only the once, he hurled himself at her and she really did tell him off and towered over him, while he was on his back, four paws facing the sky and that was that, over and done, lesson learned and no problems now, he has the ultimate respect for all eldery dogs.

Just my two penneth, I love a CM debate!

[Helen2009]

I watched a whole series of his back to back. When I got to the end of it I just couldn't believe how this man calls himself a 'trainer'. He contradicted himself in so many places, provided useless advice and the look of fear on these dogs faces was just plain sad. I remember an EBT who refused to walk. All he did was chase it up the garden steps tapping its bottom to get it go, in his words, to get the energy going or something. Ridiculous!!

The difference with his programme is that a note always comes up on the screen saying 'owners should consult a professional before trying any of these techinques'. What I like about Victoria's programmes are, as the advice is always positive and non punitive, there is no need for that as anyone can try the techniques with their dog. To say CM has put dog training back into the middle ages is putting it mildy. There is only one thing I agree on with him, that a dog needs exercising. The rest is poppycock.

If you want to know more I suggest you google his name. I did that once and came up with a lawsuit that was filed against him. It was from a man whose dog was being trained at his centre using his methods and was put on to a treadmill. This dog ended up needing thousands of dollars of veterinary treatment. Worth a read.

[Helen2009]

Poor Border Are you sure this Border actually felled and killed a fully grown sheep?? Sheep do die of shock pretty easily so it was pretty careless of the owner not to leash his dog when the sheep were in view. I would never ever walk my dogs off lead around livestock. Rather that than subject them to a shock collar. Border Terriers have a natural instinct to chase anyway so the owner should have been aware of that imo.

[ladybug1802]

I hate those shock collars. Sure they 'work'...but that poopr Border terrier stays close to its owner because it is scared stiff that if it moves away it is going to get electrocuted. i myself would rather keep my dog on a long line or lead around livestock than inflict this pain on him just to keep him off lead around sheep.

Off to Google now....

[Mattie]

There are good and bad in EVERY dog trainer, you/we just need to take what we want and disregard what we don't want. No one makes us watch him! Every dog is different and should be treated accordingly, that's why I watch lots of different dog training shows, read lots of books etc.

Yes there are good and bad in every trainer, some have a lot more good than bad but most trainers don't abuse the dogs they are training, he does. Disregarding abuse is just saying it is ok to carry on abusing the dogs, it isn't, nothing warrents a dog being abused.

Electric collars - not a fan, but you need to be an expert on timing (as with all dog training, timing is very important). I've seen a dog (a border terrier) that has chased and killed a sheep, taken to a trainer who used an electric collar, and now that dog doesn't even look at the sheep but stays very close to it's owner. It took one zap and that dog now can be walked safely. As I've said, I'm not a fan, but on this occasion it worked, so I wouldn't rule it out for serious problems. The secret is to not allow your dog get himself into that situation in the first place!

I have had a dog that was like this, we were not told that she could chase and kill sheep, we stopped her doing this without using a shock collar, chasing sheep is a natural instincted to a dog, shocking them to stop it isn't acceptable to me when it can be stopped by keeping the dog on a lead when round sheep. We have had people on here who used these collars and I have seen them on other forums as well, the shock collar made the dog worse not better. I used to know a dog that had a shock collar used on him, a beautiful, long coated black GSD, he ended up putting a very experienced Army trainer in hospital, he nearly killed him but thankfully there was someone else there when this dog attacked him. Before the collar was used he was just a normal GSD.

The Alpha roll. My lurcher did that to my Rottie puppy - only the once, he hurled himself at her and she really did tell him off and towered over him, while he was on his back, four paws facing the sky and that was that, over and done, lesson learned and no problems now, he has the ultimate respect for all eldery dogs.

Just my two penneth, I love a CM debate!

I used to think that dogs alpha rolled other dogs but they don't, if you could see that again you will probably see that your puppy saw in your lurcher that he was very annoyed and rolled over himself onto his back as an apeasment and yes your lurcher would have given him a good telling off standing over him. I have seen this many times with dogs.

[jacksdad]

The media will always highlight bad points, that's what they do.

I don't watch his show, don't even get the channel. However, I have seen much of what Mattie shares and not from the "media with an agenda", I have seen it right on his National Geo show site and on his supporter's sites.





A CM thread.....woohooo IBTL

[emmabeth]

The problem with saying that there is good and bad with every trainer or every method, and that it is up to the dog owner to pick out whats useful/effective/correct...

Is that this assumes all owners are capable of doing this and most of them are not. This is not because the majority of dog owners are dumb but because people describe methods wrongly, or attribute behaviours to the wrong reasons, because some methods are portrayed as being necessary and pleasant when they are not, etc etc.

Unless you already ARE a 'dog geek' and are well versed in both sides of the dog training methods 'thang', AND have some experience in how some people will twist their words, use slight of hand and do one thing whilst saying entirely another, it can be nigh on impossible to pick out what is good/right/useful/correct, from waht is bad/dangerous/abusive/cruel/incorrect.

We get it time and time again here, people come here having been told to do something or shown something or tried something that in all honesty they thought was:

Necessary.
Appropriate.
Effective.
Not unkind.

How many times are these people horrified to find out that in many cases the techniques they have been shown or attempted themselves are none of those things?

In addition to this, and it occurs very commonly with people who have puppies behaving 100% normally, think about the desperation in the people who have a problem they CANNOT fathom out, its a dangerous or scary problem and they feel way otu of their depth. How CAN they sensibly pick out from a show that is offering 'magical' solutions, seemingly the answer to all their prayers, the right, kind, appropriate things to do, from the dangerous and abusive things?

The simple answer is, they can't - if people could we would not have anyone alpha rolling dogs, stringing them up and using prong collars or e-collars. Everyone would automatically understand that these are bad methods.

[Sarah83]

I used to think that dogs alpha rolled other dogs but they don't, if you could see that again you will probably see that your puppy saw in your lurcher that he was very annoyed and rolled over himself onto his back as an apeasment and yes your lurcher would have given him a good telling off standing over him. I have seen this many times with dogs.

Yup, same. I seriously doubt Rupert was physically forced onto his back by a ***** who could get almost her whole body inside his muzzle but he was certainly belly up.

Rupert HAS forced 2 other dogs onto their back and I can tell you with 110% certainty that he intended to harm these dogs.

[Mattie]

Rupert HAS forced 2 other dogs onto their back and I can tell you with 110% certainty that he intended to harm these dogs.

Would you class that as an alpha roll to bring the dogs under control and to show them that we are boss though Sarah?

[Sarah83]

Rupert HAS forced 2 other dogs onto their back and I can tell you with 110% certainty that he intended to harm these dogs.

Would you class that as an alpha roll to bring the dogs under control and to show them that we are boss though Sarah?

No, I wouldn't have classed it as him simpy trying to bring the other dog under control and show them who was boss. The first dog he did it to suffered quite severe injuries. It had attacked him, the person walking it simply stood there crying and refused to help me seperate them. God only knows what would have happened if I hadn't managed to get them apart and force her to get a leash on hers. It definitey wasn't an "I am boss!" type of thing. I have seen spats that seemed to be sorting out heirarchy but no blood was drawn.