follow on and update?

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ZaraD
Posts: 164
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:06 am

follow on and update?

Post by ZaraD » Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:22 am

Hi All

just an update me and my mom did not go for one of the Collie pups and the rescue have given her to someone experienced with raising litters but we have deiced on the rough collie and means we get to read more books and do more research.

i also wanted to follow on from this post https://positively.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=23670 and hope someone can give advice.

the family friend who i mentioned still really wants a GSD as there is no other breed she is interested in and she said she just would not be happy getting a lab or golden just because shes a first time owner. so i wanted to ask properly this time.

so lets say someone really wanted a GSD (German shepherd dog) but was a first time owner but not your average first time owner and lets say this person has read hundreds of books on the breed has read hundreds of books on dog behavior , training, socialization and even gone as far as to read books on aggression and fearful behavior in dogs and has met hundreds of GSD's and there is no other breed she loves or would be committed to than the GSD so much so that she is even wanting to employ someone like emmabeth or even someone like Victoria stilwell herself to help guide her through and help train her first dog.

would you say this type of first time owner could be fine to pick a GSD or would you still recommend a lab. as she understand that labs are easier than GSD but labs and gundogs in general are just not her cup of tea and she said she just would not be committed to a lab if it did go wrong were she would be 100% committed to a GSD and determined to nib it in the bud if it went wrong with a GSD. i think that comes from her love and passion for the breed. she knows that there not the most healthy breed and is aware of the nervous aggression issues in some lines so knows she needs to be very careful were she buys. she has also been on a GSD forum on there they told her that a GSD can make a good first dog for her because she has done all the above i mentioned but the said that GSD in general dont make the best choice for a first time owner but they only recommended them to the most dedicated and my friend sounds sensible and dedicated.

i also wanted to ask if its even possible to find a fairly good structured and good tempered GSD in the UK?

if anyone can give any advice i would be so, so, so grateful.

( i looked through the GSD posts on here and some say yes go for it get a GSD than others say no your best getting a lab or golden and my friend is not in my opinion your average first time owner as she going to have someone knowledgeable with her from day 1 and has done her research and knows what shes getting herself into with a shepherd)

ZaraD
Posts: 164
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:06 am

Re: follow on and update?

Post by ZaraD » Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:34 am

Just found this post https://positively.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=21832

if you read Nettles first reply its pretty much saying what im asking.

she says " But IF someone has done the right research and has someone on hand with the knowledge to prevent things going wrong as opposed to fixing them when they do go wrong, they can have any breed/gender as a first dog."

this is what my friend has done read hundreds of books on the breed and on dogs and will employ someone knowledgeable to help guide to help prevent things going wrong.

so would you all agree with Nettle that if someone has done as Nettle says there research and got someone with knowledge like emmabeth then a GSD is not off limits with her being a first time owner?

Lotsaquestions
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:06 am

Re: follow on and update?

Post by Lotsaquestions » Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:22 am

I know of two GSDs with first time owners. They take them to training and socialise them with people and animals and both are absolutely fantastic dogs because they've been brought up with positive reinforcement. The GSD's I see with issues (ones I've passed on the streets that are a bit nuts) tend to have a choke chain around their neck, or even worse, a prong collar.

I personally think your friend will be not only fine, but more than fine, with a well bred GSD. I wouldn't recommend a working line one though. She just needs to remember that aloofness in a GSD is normal, so that is what she will need to be aiming at. Not a soppy friendly Lab who runs up to everyone and every dog to say hello, but a stoic, even tempered aloof dog who could take or leave people and dogs outside of his family. Ofc there are always exceptions since each dog is an individual!

It is definatley possible to find an even tempered and well build GSD in the UK. The two I know are straight backs with no signs of any nervousness. I can't speak for where they came from because I've never asked, but at one point I was really interested in GSDs and I looked at the kennel Mysti Skies alot who seem to be good (but I didn't look into it too much). Alternatively a good GSD club could point you in the right direction, but even if the breeder has a 'good sell' I would recommend staying away from anyone with sloped back GSDs in their lines.

ZaraD
Posts: 164
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:06 am

Re: follow on and update?

Post by ZaraD » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:17 am

Lotsaquestions wrote:
Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:22 am
I know of two GSDs with first time owners. They take them to training and socialise them with people and animals and both are absolutely fantastic dogs because they've been brought up with positive reinforcement. The GSD's I see with issues (ones I've passed on the streets that are a bit nuts) tend to have a choke chain around their neck, or even worse, a prong collar.

I personally think your friend will be not only fine, but more than fine, with a well bred GSD. I wouldn't recommend a working line one though. She just needs to remember that aloofness in a GSD is normal, so that is what she will need to be aiming at. Not a soppy friendly Lab who runs up to everyone and every dog to say hello, but a stoic, even tempered aloof dog who could take or leave people and dogs outside of his family. Ofc there are always exceptions since each dog is an individual!

It is definatley possible to find an even tempered and well build GSD in the UK. The two I know are straight backs with no signs of any nervousness. I can't speak for where they came from because I've never asked, but at one point I was really interested in GSDs and I looked at the kennel Mysti Skies alot who seem to be good (but I didn't look into it too much). Alternatively a good GSD club could point you in the right direction, but even if the breeder has a 'good sell' I would recommend staying away from anyone with sloped back GSDs in their lines.
thank you so, so much for your advice. she (my friend) has already more or less deiced on a GSD she just wanted advice from people who train positively that it can work with a GSD and a first time owner. she already knows all about there aloofness and the protective nature and thats one of the areas along with the aloofness that she wants to focus on when raising her GSD with the help of someone like Emmabeth :D

the aloofness is one thing she likes about the GSD as shes not fond of labs who love everyone but she dose not want the dog to guarding of other people so thats why she will be making sure that her shepherd is friendly to people just not over friendly. as even though gsd are good guard dogs she said she does not want nor need a guard dog but its the other qualities and the personality of the shepherd that she loves as it matches her personality.

most people get the breed to be a guard dog and for the protective train without realizing how dangerous that can be and most dont even know what there doing and there the people who give the shepherd a bad name , were as for me i love the GSD for who he is his loyalty to his owner his unique personality his train-ability and intelligence ect.. (these are the words of my friend).

as for type she has no interest in showline and gets very angry at how breeders have ruined the showline GSD and hopes one day the showline shep will be back to what it use to be. she also has no interest in working line and is looking at long coats as they tend to have more straight back and better structured and all the long coats shes met have had fantastic temperaments.

Lotsaquestions
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:06 am

Re: follow on and update?

Post by Lotsaquestions » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:26 am

Your friend sounds like a perfect owner for a GSD, to be honest.

The kennel Mysti Skies are long coated, straight backed GSD dogs and they are also not shy at all in talking about the bad points of their dogs (which I think makes a worthwhile breeder!). If your friend likes the look of them, I am sure that if she doesn't find the right litter from that kennel that the breeders would know of other kennels with the same goals.

ZaraD
Posts: 164
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:06 am

Re: follow on and update?

Post by ZaraD » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:58 am

Lotsaquestions wrote:
Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:26 am
Your friend sounds like a perfect owner for a GSD, to be honest.

The kennel Mysti Skies are long coated, straight backed GSD dogs and they are also not shy at all in talking about the bad points of their dogs (which I think makes a worthwhile breeder!). If your friend likes the look of them, I am sure that if she doesn't find the right litter from that kennel that the breeders would know of other kennels with the same goals.
Thanks for the reply , my Friend is actually struggling to find a breeder at the moment as she wants to make a list and then go and see them in person the Problem is she's avoiding showlines and working lines. She looked at mysti skies and does like them but it's the health tests she struggling with as a behaviorist told her the bare minimum she should look for is hip, elbows , DM and Haemophilia for boys. But her problem is that some breeders don't test for DM and then when she thinks she's found one who does they only test some dogs for example she liked this breeder www.champdogs.co.uk/breeder/16007 but then when she looked at a litter only Dad is DM tested and not mom www.champdogs.co.uk/litter/46415

And mysti skies DM test so at first she was over the moon and then she saw not all dogs are elbow tested.

So she's found 1 breeder so far so she doesn't know what to do? I'm asking on here for her as the gsd forum she's a member of she asked for help and said all of the above but they were all horrible to her just because she said she personally is not a fan of showlines and they all were telling her how can you be a gsd fan when you racsist against the show Shepherd they then banned her before she could even reply. I don't understand how these people can't see how the show Shep's are crippled :shock: :roll:

If anyone can help with advice I would be very greatful

Lotsaquestions
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2017 6:06 am

Re: follow on and update?

Post by Lotsaquestions » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:54 am

Shame about Mysti Skies! They are really beautiful looking dogs.

You have to be careful about denouncing other people's pride and joys. They may have banana backs, but to the people who own them they're perfect. You see the same when anyone denounces flat faced dogs for their breathing difficulties. They'll say that their wheezing angel exercises just fine! Cavalier breeders are the same, proudly saying that their Cav lived until 8 years old before a murmur or their SM doesn't hurt them that much! Then you stumble across amazing people like the woman at Poundlane who recognise the flaws in their beloved breeds and try and do something about it.

Rant over, your friend will find a good breeder. They are out there. She could ask why Mysti Skies didn't elbow test all their dogs if she liked everything else about them, it could just be a website oversight. Or if she likes the longcoat, straight back lines she could get in contact with the breeder she likes to ask for recommendations. A good breeder won't hesitate to recommend someone they respect. In searching for Finnish Lapphunds the amazing breeder I've spoken to recommended someone else before I even asked, someone who tests and values the dogs as much as she does, a breeder I would have never known about without her telling me. I am sure the one breeder your friend likes would do the same.

ZaraD
Posts: 164
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:06 am

Re: follow on and update?

Post by ZaraD » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:03 am

Lotsaquestions wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:54 am
Shame about Mysti Skies! They are really beautiful looking dogs.

You have to be careful about denouncing other people's pride and joys. They may have banana backs, but to the people who own them they're perfect. You see the same when anyone denounces flat faced dogs for their breathing difficulties. They'll say that their wheezing angel exercises just fine! Cavalier breeders are the same, proudly saying that their Cav lived until 8 years old before a murmur or their SM doesn't hurt them that much! Then you stumble across amazing people like the woman at Poundlane who recognise the flaws in their beloved breeds and try and do something about it.

Rant over, your friend will find a good breeder. They are out there. She could ask why Mysti Skies didn't elbow test all their dogs if she liked everything else about them, it could just be a website oversight. Or if she likes the longcoat, straight back lines she could get in contact with the breeder she likes to ask for recommendations. A good breeder won't hesitate to recommend someone they respect. In searching for Finnish Lapphunds the amazing breeder I've spoken to recommended someone else before I even asked, someone who tests and values the dogs as much as she does, a breeder I would have never known about without her telling me. I am sure the one breeder your friend likes would do the same.
Thank you very much for your help. She only told them she's not considering the showlines because all the breeders they recommended were showlines so she thought that if she told them they would be able to help better but she was shocked at there response. She did say that she means no disrespect and that she knows some of them on there own showlines but it's just her opinion so they could help recommend breeders who matches what she is looking for.

I will tell her your advice as even I never thought that it could just be mysti skies have not updated there website :D

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