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I love my dogs dearly. I love them as much as I love my husband, mom, dad, sister...
I know my dogs are happy with me, happy when I'm there, happy when I get home. I know this is because I have all the resources like exercise, food, sweeties, games, company, interaction, cuddling (only Striker, Bibi doesn't like to be cuddled much), etc.
But I'm wondering. Is "love" a totally human concept, or are dogs able to "love" us back?
Just asking for interest-sake.
There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face. ~Ben Williams
It's a very very good question, and something I wonder about myself.
Taken broadly, IMO a lot of humans can't "love" maybe none of us can. There's a deal of self-interest in it, especially when it backfires. There is "in love" which is a multiple release of feelgood hormones - fantastic to experience and a total sham, like a hit from other addictive substances. There is parent/child "love" where the child "loves" no matter how mistreated because it has nowhere else to go and no other protection. There is the supportive tolerant love we have in a comfortable long-term relationship.
There is what I feel for my dogs, and my horse when I had him. What the hell is/was it? I know I am wrecked when they die, but that is sorrow I feel for me and for my loss What do they feel for us?
Why does a dog crawl back to the person that abuses it? Why do children? Why do adults stick with abusive partners? I don't think that is love - I think that is something dark and uneasy in us/them: fear of abandonment maybe? Fear it could get even worse?
I think dogs need to feel safe. I believe they can go their whole lives without "love" and be fine, as long as they have the right food, water, exercise, company and protection. I think a lot of people "love" dogs that they unintentionally abuse because the dogs are fed badly, not exercised, not given the right treatment. I think a dog released from that and rehomed somewhere its needs are taken care of feels that life is better and so is happy with its new home and new owner.
But love - love? They are happy when we are happy, and they initiate unnatural behaviour eg cuddles and snuggles because they have learned it is nice with/for us.
I'd love to think they love - but I honestly don't know.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog
I think the first thing we need to know is "what is love", like many words it means different things to different people. I came up with this http://www.answers.com/topic/love Good luck.
I'd also like to think they love But how correct that is, I don't know.
What about dogs who die shortly after their owner die? Do they grief because of the loss, and miss the person, or is it more to do with the change in circumstances?
Not that it matter, I'm just curious.
There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face. ~Ben Williams
It must have been frightening for a long time if the owner has been ill and gradually deteriorating. Dogs are good at detecting weakness. When your Safe Place is becoming weak, you feel scared and unsafe.
When your Safe Place disappears it must be beyond awful for a dog, having no understanding of the future, feeling fearful in the "now". Maybe the new people will get it right, maybe they will get it so terribly wrong.
I have a dear friend who died this year after a long illness, and who took the opportunity of the dog having a few days here and there with its new home, first with her and then without. The changeover was still difficult, but the dog was not going into an unknown situation.
Sometimes of course there is no time for preparation, and the Safe Place is suddenly not there any more.
Sometimes the partner who owns the dog dies and the other partner doesn't like the dog, maybe never did. Dogs know this.
I think they can give up and die, but of fear for themselves. Like we do too.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog
There are ways or things about my dogs that I love that they cannot possibly reciprocate - I love the way a hound moves, stretched out in full flight after her quarry.... the elegant and artful way a dog lays on its back with all its legs in the air... the unhurried cat-stretch on waking up... the wiggle of Errols funny little 'over his back' tail which passes for his version of a happy wag...
Can a dog love teh aesthetics of a person, the way a person moves and 'is'.... I don't think so..
I think much of what we call love is in fact, need... and this may offend some people but, the 'love' a child has for its parent... is that really love when that child has no concept of any other adult, does not know itself and basically, NEEDS the human/s that it is most familiar with, ie those that were there from birth (because I am pretty sure we do know that a child given to someone ELSE from the first minute will, like other neonates, bond with that person very quickly which is why newborn babies are very quickly given to Mum to hold and feed and neither are bothered unless absolutely necessary).
I have only come to love my own parents since the time I became an adult and could understand that they are adult people with their own ideas, agendas etc etc. IE.. since I no longer absolutely and unquestioningly NEED them..... I am free to love them for who and what they are/were... warts and all!
So.... I guess if what we call love is the need and desire to be with someone that a child has for its parent... then dogs have that too because they need and desire to be with us, in preference to being with someone else. They are fed and housed and feel safe and secure with us (or at least SHOULD), and like a child have little or no concept that this *could* be achieved elsewhere and with some other person...
They have no concept of the future as far as I am aware so live in the now, on the whole, though incidents from the past I think can be brought back by various triggers, so they probably dont fear loss (unlike small children who DO, once they grasp the concept of the future and usually before they grasp the concept of death though the two things can coincide) unless there is a reason such as the owner being ill in somew way.
Soo.... I think we call a lot of things 'love' that would rightly be given another name, because its a concept WE like. I do believe, as harsh as it may sound that much of what we label 'love' is really fear, need, want, which would all apply to dogs. (and admiration, jealousy, lust, desire, aesthetic appeal... which probably doesnt!).
Read this amazing article about whether dogs truly love us. This is a true story! This is proof that they love us not because of rewards and attention.
Dogs aren't capable of hating. Only of disliking, fearing, etc (all these usually bc of something that happened). Then the same should be true the other way around.
Maybe what we see (or rather like to see) as love, is the need, want, like to be with us.
And when we go away, they don't "miss" us the way a person would miss another person. They actually miss the trust, fun, the 'known', the routine, the exercise, the food, etc.
For example, when a dog gets rehomed, or his owner passes away, and in his new home he gets everything he did at his old home - he won't "miss" his first owner just for the sake of "missing" him. Also not wonder - what happened to my owner, why did they leave me here, are the coming back, did I do something wrong. Also then not feeling rejected.
Am I right when I reason like that?
There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face. ~Ben Williams
What I think is wierd is that if a dog doesn't love the way humans do...Well, did any one read that story I posted?
Basically, (In short) this boxer was given to this little girl at 10 weeks old. Before that he was with a family where this little boy tried to drown the pup TWICE. This boy was mentally slow and didn't understand that the boxer pup wasn't trying to take his place.
Moving fast forward, this pup was placed in a new home and immediately bond with the the daughter (he was given to her as a birthday gift). The bond was very strong and one day the little girl fell in the river and to make the long story short the boxer dove into the river and saved the little girl.
This boxer couldn't swim and FEARED the water, but, yet he went in to the river to save the girl. The question in the post is that if dogs don't feel love the way we feel and if they just love us for the routine and rewards, then why did this dog sacrifice his life for this girl?
He didn't have to save her he could of let her drown and let someon else in the family take care of him! The family loved this dog so I am sure someone could of taken this girls place. Again, this boxer went in despite the fear he had because the bond or love was STRONG.
So, maybe the bond between dogs and humans go a lot deeper then us human know
Read the article and you all can decided for yourselves.
I remember when I was walking Cuddles in the park a couple of weeks ago there is this lady feeds the ducks and basically sit in the park. Well, she loves Cuddles and all ways thanks me for sharing Cuddles with her. We started walking Cuddles together and she said to me that she read about a research that was going on.... Do dogs love us or have emotions like humans?...She said to me obiviously these people who are conducting these research have never owned a dog or they would know that a dogs loyalty and love goes way deeper then what us humans can understand. I totally agree with her!!
As I was walking with this lady she had tears in her eyes as she talked about her beloved golden retreiver she once owned!!
This is another interesting article.....Thanks again all! Kalo
Scientists may avoid the subject because part of what sets humans apart from the animals is our ability to experience feelings. To say that animals actually have feelings, in the same way we do, would change everything – perhaps disrupt our entire position and standing in the animal kingdom.
However, any dog owner knows that dogs love completely and have a greater capacity for love than most people. If one were to describe the main characteristics of a dog, they would have to be:
strong affection
warm attachment
unselfish loyalty and benevolent concern for others
Wait a minute – those are the Merriam-Webster Dictionary definitions of love. Probably why the author of Dogs Never Lie About Love, Jeffrey Moussaieff Masson writes, “dogs are love.” So there isn’t a question of whether dogs love, the mystery is how they have such an enormous capacity for it. Dogs who are neglected or abused still show love for their human and wag their tails in hope of a little affection.
Dogs taken from abusive situations hold no grudges toward the human race. A half an ounce of kindness from a new person results in an abundance of affection from the formerly mistreated dog. Humans rarely have the capacity to so completely forgive and love under those circumstances.
Probably the biggest reason the dog has become man’s best friend is because we know that when it comes to love, a dog can always outdo us. The highest form of love, agape love, which is completely unconditional, is something that people often have to work at or grow into. Agape love seems to come naturally between parent and child, but it’s more difficult between husband and wife, and harder still between friends. To love someone regardless of what wrongs they have done you is very difficult for humans.
A dog, however, is born with an endless capacity for agape love, and doesn’t even have to work at it. You can be a complete grouch, ignore your dog, and refuse him your love. When you decide you’re ready to be sociable again, your dog doesn’t pay you back by ignoring you too. He’s just happy you’re there. More amazing still, is that the love that dogs and owners feel for each other lasts a lifetime. This is the ideal love humans strive for, but often fail at.
As Jeffrey Moussaieff Masson so beautifully writes in Dogs Never Lie About Love:
Learning to know somebody intimately is often the beginnings of dislike, sometimes even of contempt. Among humans, love often does not survive a growing acquaintance, but in a dog, love seems to grow with acquaintance, to get stronger, deeper. Even when fully acquainted with all our weaknesses, our treachery, our unkindness, the dog seems to love strongly – and this love is returned by most dog-loving humans. We, too, seem to love our dogs the more we get to know them. The bond grows between us and our dogs.
This is why we need dogs. They do something for us that rarely a human companion can do. No matter how much you mess up your life, or how much wrong you do, no matter how many mistakes you make or how often you make them, regardless of your looks, income or social standing, your dog never judges you. He always thinks you are wonderful and loves you with all his heart.
Critters For the Cure 2009 Calendar
Critters for the Cure seeks to enhance the traditional medical care that breast cancer patients receive by offering funds for treatments such as acupuncture, biofeedback, and massage therapy, as well as pay for things like wigs, and anti-nausea medications, medical bills, transportation, and even dog walkers. But the organization's heart is about the great healing value of having animals in out lives, as well as the love we receive from these animals. Critters for the Cure brings attention to this connection through their annual calendar and the stories it tells. For instance, Critters for the Cure's President, Clancy Kress, says:
Amazingly, one of the women featured in their 2009 calendar has a dog that sniffed out her breast cancer tumor. Modern medicine didn't find it but luckily her dog did, and he saved her life. The relationship that the women in the calendar have with their dogs demonstrate that dogs instinctively know when their owner is going through a life threatening situation like breast cancer. They behave differently and protect and nurture their owner in ways that no one can explain. They just sense that they are needed and step up to the plate 24/7 until the battle is won.
Kress is also on a mission to "educate people to understand that pets help us when we battle a disease in that they keep us sane by helping to keep us on a schedule, which we need to feel some sense of normal when the rest of our life is upside down. Otherwise, we would go to bed, pull the cover over our heads and just give up. [Dogs] won't allow that to happen. They will insist on being walked, fed, and loved, and in return will forgive us for everything that we might do to neglect them during this dreadful time, because they love us unconditionally. Who else does when we get moody, and selfish, and needy? Who will be there for us in the middle of the night when we cry or need to throw-up?" Our dogs, that's who.
Continuing the discussion and NOT raining on anyone's parade - just being my normal pragmatic self -
It is entirely possible that various dogs who rescue their various people are doing it for themselves because their Safe Place is about to disappear/drown/whatever. It may be their fear of being left vulnerable rather than any kind of "love".
With dogs that sniff out cancers, warn of diabetic coma, epileptic fit etc - dogs have a far more powerful sense of smell than any of us could ever dream about and so they can sniff these biological differences. Dogs are extremely good at detecting illness and vulnerability in other dogs. In these cases, quite often (not always) they attack the other dog. In the same way, hunting dogs faced with a group of prey will pick out the weakest animal (how do we know? - post-mortem studies of that animal). Therefore it is natural and unremarkable for a dog to detect illness in its person. Those dogs that do this develop behaviour which draws the sufferer's attention to the incipient hypo, siezure or whatever.
Love of the people or securing their own welfare?
Before you ask, yes some dogs do attack people who are sick or otherwise vulnerable "he just went for her for no reason". Some dogs are extremely fretful around sick people.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog
However, any dog owner knows that dogs love completely and have a greater capacity for love than most people. If one were to describe the main characteristics of a dog, they would have to be:
strong affection
warm attachment
unselfish loyalty and benevolent concern for others
Wait a minute – those are the Merriam-Webster Dictionary definitions of love
I believe in this statement up above. They don't call it Man's Best Friend For Nothing.
Besides don't we as humans want a safe place in life as well?
Yes Kalo, I did read your articles, thanks for sharing them
I tend to go with Nettle though - I also think that whatever it is that dogs experience, it's not "love" as we know "love". I don't think we should feel bad though. For me it's more than enough to know my dogs feels safe and are happy with me.
I don't see it as a bad thing - when dogs need to be rehomed (for whatever reason), especially when they come from an amazing owner (say who passed away or whatever), I think it's better that they can not "love". If they then find a new home and the new owner provides a safe place, food, exercise, etc, the dog will adapt much better I think.
wvvdiup1 wrote:I don't think dogs have that perception or capability as we humans do, Melissa!
I don't think so either wvvdiup.
There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face. ~Ben Williams
What do they feel for us? 
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