Overweight Weenie

[***Melissa***]

Okay, I have been in denial for a few months now about Striker's weight (I saw a perfectly healthy dachshund last night and he is waaaaaay thinner than Striker).

First things first:
Striker = 1 year 4 month old Dachshund. His mother is a Standard Dachshund and his father is a mix between a Standard and a Mini. So Striker is more the size of the Std than the Mini, but still is a little smaller that the Std.

We used to free feed and he was on a completely wrong diet, which we fixed about a month and a half *?*, maybe 2 months, ago. We had him spayed when he was about a year (at the time we didn't know any better), and he started to gain weight right after that (not sure if it's got something to do with the spaying, but it seems like it?).

So even when he was on the wrong diet & we were free feeding he was the correct weight, but as soon as we got him spayed he gained weight. AND even though we changed his diet and he gets 2 meals a day he still hasn't lost any weight.

Now, I saw that he gained weight, and I have tried to get him to loose a little weight, but I wasn't overly concerned about it, and I also didn't think he was AS fat as people said he was...untill now

He gets a 30 min walkie everyday - which will increase as soon as I can walk both my doggies together (long story short, but I can give details if necessary).

Apart from the walkie we have major playtime in and around the house, everyday. We play ball, "fetch", "chase", and also Bibi (Weenie x jack russel - 3 months old) plays with him A LOT. Our complex have a (fenced) tennis court & swimming pool area, so I also take both doggies there some days (depending on whether there's people or not because it's actually not allowed ) for "off lead running", it's not huge, but it's better than nothing I think. He doesn't really RUN, but he is a little investigator and make sure he investigate every inch before we go

He is on the raw food diet now, and it's difficult to say what he eats as it differ every day, but basically it would be somethink like:

Breakfast: 3 to4 veggie cubes (sometimes with blended offal, sometimes with sawdust, sometimes with meat, sometimes just plain veggies)

Kong: The idea is to replace supper with the kong (like put the chickie wing IN the kong,etc) but we are still on the high value easy stuff. I used to fill it with ham & cheese but has now swithed to apple and carrot with blended liver & a little cream cheese. (or something similar)

Supper: A raw meaty bone - Sometimes a chickie wing but mostly red meat (because it's more affordable). The average "red meat + bone" is a little bigger than the chickie wing.

Training Treats: For easy stuff I now use dried liver (switched to it the past weekend) and keep cheese / cheesespread / hot dog sausages / meat for walkies or when I really need to get his attention. (This is a new change - before this most of the treats was the really yummy stuff)

His current weight is 7,6 kg (16,8 *?* pounds).

Here is a link with recent pictures:
http://www.positively.com/forum/viewtop ... =31&t=5618

Could it be the spaying that's affecting his weight? And if so, how do I fix it?
Do I need to give him less food? (I don't think he eats that much, does he?) If it is the spaying - do I fix it with his diet or is there another way?

This is everything I can think of right now - please tell me if you need more info?

[Nettle]

If he's overweight, give him less food. That's all there is to it. No mystery - his being overweight is telling you he's getting too much.

More green veg. will fill him up without weight gain, and when he can have more exercise, that will help him maintain a good figure.

Neutering does affect weight, so we have to feed less than we would feed a dog that is entire.

[***Melissa***]

Okay, I can do that

More green veg. will fill him up without weight gain...

This is actually an obvious question, but I need to make sure...So in other words I need to cut back on the meat then?

[Leigha]

If it makes you feel better-- according to AKC standards standards should be between 16-32 pounds, and minis should be 11 or less. So if he's more of a standard size he's really not that off, so it should be too much to get him where he needs to be.

One thing to think about is the training treats--look at the size of the treats you're giving him. Are they big or small? When we started training Bru he turned into a little porker because the pieces I gave him were WAAAAAY too big. So I scaled them back to something much smaller. They're about the size of an eraser on the end of a pencil (maybe a little smaller). He doesn't care how big the treat is because he's highly food motivated. He just cares that he's getting food.

[***Melissa***]

Hey Leigha

I have reduced the size of treats, and it is about the size of the eraser at the back of the pencil

Which now got me thinking again... Do you know how long does is take (approximately) before you see changes in their weight? Because it's only a few days sinse I changed to dried liver for treats and I think about a week that they are getting 'healthier' kongs.

Do you give your weenies one chickie wing each? (And you have minis right?)

I've read somewhere that you're not suppose to see their ribs, but you should be able to feel them...well, even if I press fairly hard I still can't feel Striker's ribs

[Leigha]

Yes, I have mini-weenies. I give them 1 chicken wing each and a veggie cube. Kole's a bit thin in my opinion, so we've added a veggie cube at lunch time and have given him 2 wings for dinner. So he gets a total of 3 veggie cubes and 3 wings a day. When he gets where I like him I'll probably drop him back down to 3 veggie cubes and 2 wings a day.

[***Melissa***]

Mmmm...then you are right, it must be the treats...I'll see where I can cut back on treats and do it for a week. If after a week he hasn't lost any weight I'll start cutting back on his meals too.

[Leigha]

The treats really can add up, especially if you're doing several training sessions a day or use them when you're working on walking. I can cut up some treats tonight and take a picture to show you how big I make them if you want. Honestly, it probably wouldn't hurt Bru to go on a diet. He probably weighs close to 30 pounds (hasn't been to the vet in a while for us to weigh him) and beagles should weigh around 25 pounds. Granted he's a tall beagle and isn't FAT--he still has a waste that is visible, but he probably does have a bit of added padding. I think Bruiser's issue is he's not getting enough exercise, so rather than cutting back his food I'm going to start walking or running our fat butts every day.

[***Melissa***]

I'd love to see a picture of your treats

I use treats when walking, but he's not really interested in treats then...BUT we do a couple of training sessions every day, and I treat "randomly" for when he's behaving like I want him to. For eg, he is very 'excited' when I'm busy in the kitchen and cant sit still so I treat for calmness in the kitchen area.

So yes, you are def right. Even though the treats are tiny they do add up a lot, I never realised how much it actually adds up

Come to think of it...t's going to be difficult to cut back on the treats I'll think of something though

[emmabeth]

I wouldnt cut back on the treats if they are for good stuff and are small... cut back on the meals, just reduce the meat/fat/etc bits.. increase the veggies to make up for it so he doesnt realise hes getting less food..

Its only where people are handing out treats willynilly for no reason at all that treats need cutting back.

[Leigha]

Oops, I wasn't meaning cut back the number, I was meaning cut back the size. Because Bru's such a chowhound, he doesn't care how big his treat is, he cares that he's getting one. So I can make them really small, and he'll still work for them.

[***Melissa***]

Oh my, sorry, I think I misunderstood you Leigha

Okay Em, I'll cut back on the meaty/fatty part.

I saw chicken bones at the butchery the other day - with no meat on them. Now I'm thinking...if I reduce the meat, and I can't get small enough RMBs I can always feed say grounded meat with a bare (raw) chicken bone. Would that be okay Em?

Also, is it only the meaty / fatty part that make them gain weight or can the bone itself also make them gain weight?

AND (last one ) the bone / meat ratio should be the same as a chickie wing. Would you say that is about 50% meat 50% bone?

[Nettle]

Not a bare bone - that's why we say raw MEATY bones there is good reason for this - the meat and bone is eaten together.

However you do it, you have to get your head around giving your dog less food. Green veggies won't put weight on - everything else will.

A raw meaty bone has the perfect meat to bone ratio. Juts feed fewer of them. Less of everything except those green veg.

[***Melissa***]

This is more difficult than I thought I feel sorry for him with his tiny (okay, not tiny, but smaller) meaty bones. I do give more veggies though, but he gives me the look that says "wtf, where's my big meaty bone" and then when he's done with it he'll look at me with very sad eyes. It's breaking my heart

Last night after the meaty bone (and some veggies) he still looked at me and I felt so guilty that I gave him a whole raw carrot - I got a huge "WTF!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!" look

But I know that it will be for his own benefit, so I'm doing my best not to give in

I put some olive oil in the veggie mix - they won't eat it witout olive oil Does the olive oil also affect their weight?

[emmabeth]

Poor boy... wanting a big raw meaty bone... and getting a carrot. Thats like me expecting a Big Mac and Fries..... and getting a carrot

Dont forget as well that because you are aiming to achieve balance over time... not balance in every single bite.... He can have a slightly bigger bone one day, and a slightly smaller one the next, as long as the overall intake over a week is less than it currently is he will lose weight.

I wouldnt worry about a bit of olive oil, as long as its not drowning in it, if thats what it takes for him to eat his veggies its fine. Keep offering whole veggies as snacks and bear in mind also... it may LOOK like very little food, but its ALL 'food' and not filler/yuck/colourings etc.

I shall remind you again... my 18" tall terrier x... eats approx 2 chicken wings and a tablespoonful of meat and an icecube of veggies a day (or the equivalent in other meats/bones etc). In fact if they are particularly big wings... he will get fat on that!

I am sure Nettle will be along soon and tell you what Mr Nettles terriers eat.. but its not much! (And they do a lot more work than mine does too!)

Soooo... steel yourself... those big brown eyes are playing you! Cut his chicken wing in half so he thinks hes got two.. (cut all their wings in half and give him the skinnier bits and not the fatter bits! devious!)