Raw suppliers?

[Cocker lover]

Hi everyone.

This is my first post

In 2 weeks time I will be bringing my first puppy home , he's a English Cocker Spaniel, I haven't thought of a name yet as I want a Christmasy name.

Anyway he is fed raw he was weaned at 4 weeks onto natural instinct and is now eating there puppy food. This is what he's eating https://www.naturalinstinct.com/raw-puppy-food

The breeder recommend staying on raw which I intend to but for one months worth its going to cost £88.89 for the puppy natural instinct food which is a bit to pricey.

Iv been looking at other pretty prepared raw and the only one that is in my price range is nature's menu. https://www.naturesmenu.co.uk/puppy-bite-size-nuggets it's cheaper as you feed less.

I wanted to ask if these would be OK to feed as they have a lot more ingredients than natrual instinct which worries me.

The other raw supplier I found which is really close to me is MVM meats but there not complete I'd have to add everything myself which I'm rubbish at organisation so I wouldn't know were to start and I'd need help knowing what to feed in each meal.

Any help anyone can give would be great.

[JudyN]

Welcome, and congratulations on your new puppy While I think about it - you are planning a quiet Christmas, I hope? It can be a really difficult time for pups with all the excitement and upheaval, strange noisy drunk people turning up (OK, that is making an unfair assumption about your friends ), a big tree just crying out to be peed on, food everywhere and the dangers of unguarded chocolates, Xmas cake, pudding, mince pies, tinsel, all of which could make him ill if he ate them - to say nothing of new slippers and so on that are bound to get chewed. For most new pup owners, it's difficult enough keeping them apart from things they shouldn't eat & chew at the best of times. I'd even worry about a breeder who planned a litter that would be ready to move on so close to Christmas.

OK, lecture over - you may already have thought all that through!

The Natural Instinct does look better than Nature's Menu, as the latter contains rice. I certainly wouldn't change his diet for the first couple of weeks after he arrives anyway. This will also help you assess what is normal for him in terms of poo regularity & consistency. But Nature's Menu is certainly still an excellent food.

I would start thinking about how you can feed him on a more 'home made' raw diet. It will work out a lot cheaper and you can also introduce bones which will be great for his teeth. It is daunting at the start (I put off changing to raw for months, thinking it would be difficult), but once you've got your head round it it's very simple. I just fish one chicken carcasse & one tub of assorted mince out the freezer each morning and we're good to go There's a long thread on raw feeding here, but it may be a bit of information overload to start with: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5321

Nature's Menu supply all the 'DIY' ingredients for raw feeding. MVM are good too. I use this company: http://www.nurturingbynature.co.uk/default.asp (It's local to me but they deliver all over the country) and their quality is fantastic.

I hope some of the above helps - if you want to know more about DIY raw feeding then ask away and we can give you more details

[Shalista]

A surprising side effect of doing the homemade raw with my dog is that it was actually cheaper than the nonraw kibble he was eating. He's about 11 pounds though so it may be different as the dog gets bigger

[Cocker lover]

Thank you both for your replys.

I would prefer to do it myself but don't know how to?

Could i use the natural instinct as a guide and just make my own natural instinct?

How much a day would you think a 8 week , 3kg puppy would need as natural instincts calculator say 900g a day and nature's menu says 400g a day?

Iv also found another supplier called Basil's raw dog food http://www.basilsdogfood.co.uk/index.as ... w+Dog+Food all the meats come with 70% bone and with seasonal veg as well. There a bit more expensive but within my price range and they look better than MVM meats. What do You think?

Many thinks

[JudyN]

I would prefer to do it myself but don't know how to?

Could i use the natural instinct as a guide and just make my own natural instinct?

Yes, that would be a good way to start out - you won't go far wrong then. You could then gradually introduce other protein sources (turkey, beef, lamb, duck, fish, venison, tripe...) and other organs (liver, kidney, heart, lungs...). Just introduce one new food type at a time so you can identify anything that doesn't agree with him. And go very easy on liver at first, as getting too much can cause dire rear!!

How much a day would you think a 8 week , 3kg puppy would need as natural instincts calculator say 900g a day and nature's menu says 400g a day?

Actually... you might want to check those figures again. The calculator on the Natural Instinct page told me you would need to feed 150-180g per day. maybe you can afford to feed that after all! Generally though, you should expect to feed around 2-3% of the dog's expected adult bodyweight a day, regardless of age. So, say an adult cocker is 14kg, then your pup should need around 350g a day.

Iv also found another supplier called Basil's raw dog food http://www.basilsdogfood.co.uk/index.as ... w+Dog+Food all the meats come with 70% bone and with seasonal veg as well. There a bit more expensive but within my price range and they look better than MVM meats. What do You think?

That looks good too (note that it's not 70% bone, but 70% meat & bone). It doesn't include liver - most raw feeding sites say that it's important the dog has around 5% liver in its diet. I know that Nettle on this forum doesn't think it's necessary, though, and she's been raw feeding pups for years so knows her stuff

Whatever you decide, I'd offer a chicken wing occasionally to get him chewing on 'proper' bones.

If you notice any changes in the consistency of your dog's poos , the general rule is that if they are too firm and crumbly he needs less bone and more meat, and if too soft, he needs less meat and more bone.

[Cocker lover]

Thanks JudyN.

I will check natural instinct again iv been searching the web again and found another supplier who seems a lot better than all of them https://www.rawtogo.co.uk/collections/minces

There minces have the offal already in them. It says 10% but it's 5% liver and 5% other organ like kidney or lung or heart. What do you think?

I talk to the breeder who said that he won't really need veggies as he's a carnivore and he will need 5% liver in every meal and 5% other organ like kidney or lung at every meal? I'm unsure of this what do you think?

[JudyN]

https://www.rawtogo.co.uk/collections/minces

There minces have the offal already in them. It says 10% but it's 5% liver and 5% other organ like kidney or lung or heart. What do you think?

I talk to the breeder who said that he won't really need veggies as he's a carnivore and he will need 5% liver in every meal and 5% other organ like kidney or lung at every meal? I'm unsure of this what do you think?

Yes, they look good. The percentages your breeder suggests are those generally recommended. But not every meal has to be balanced - it's fine to have less offal/bone one day, or even one week or month, and then more the next day/week/month. That's as long as your dog can tolerate a higher amount of offal on one occasion. Some owners will feed, say, a lot of liver on just one day a week, but if I did that with my lad he'd have a very runny bum

Also, bear in mind that this isn't an exact science - there's been a lot more research on what a healthy human diet is but still the advice changes every day, and people seem healthy enough on all sorts of different diets (e.g. vegetarian vs meat eating). To my knowledge, no one has ever tried feeding a sufficient number of randomly selected dogs on different percentages of different meats and then compared their health & longevity. Or compared dogs with liver in their diet and those without in a properly controlled study. So view the percentages as 'probably a good place to start' but be guided more by what comes out the other end of your pup.

It's often suggested that dogs aren't obligate carnivores because they have evolved to scavenge alongside humans. It makes sense that those who do well on crusts of bread and other human food waste will have been selected for but other than that, the jury's still out. And of course it's in the interests of the commercial kibble companies to try to coonvince us that dogs do great on cheaper ingredients like wheat & maize

[Cocker lover]

Thanks JudyN

Iv done a bit of research online and have found a few bad reviews about raw to go , so I think I will stick with MVM meats. I liked Basil's dog food but they don't have as much variety and they don't sell liver , kidney or meaty bones and at £21.60 at box that's qiet expensive. Iv just calculated MVM at it would only cost £29.50 a month and that includes a month supply of kidney and liver and 1kg of meaty bones.

I think once he's use to liver I will just stick to the 5% at both meals. It still seems like a lot of liver as it's 10% total a day.

[Nettle]

The virtue of feeding raw green vegetables is the trace minerals they supply but more important even than that is the water and fibre that helps keep the bowels active and cleanses them from excess mucus. Dogs not fed vegetables will scavenge grass, herbs and fallen fruit as well as herbivore dung. Those fed vegetables don't seem to need it so much. Wild canids are often seen to eat vegetation and fruit.

[Cocker lover]

Thanks Nettle, I wasn't going to listern to the breeder about veg as iv always thought veg is good for them so I was still going to feed them.

What do you think of the liver intake?

[JudyN]

I think once he's use to liver I will just stick to the 5% at both meals. It still seems like a lot of liver as it's 10% total a day.

If you feed 5% of the weight of the meal at each meal, that will still be 5% overall. So if breakfast is 150g total and supper is 150g total, you would aim to feed 5% of 300g over the day, which is 15g - this could be 7.5g in each meal or 15g in one of them.

[Cocker lover]

Thanks JudyN now I get it so it's 5% total so at each meal I would spilt the 15 g. I thought it was feed 15 g at each meal

I'm thinking of keeping him on his natural instinct for the first month or so and then introduce him to MVM. Would it be OK of he had no liver or kidney with his NI or do I have to still add it to his NI?

[Nettle]

I can't remember when mine last had liver or kidney. They get plenty of red meat, though.