Anti Pull Harness

[Mattie]

The headcollars that Victoria normally uses is not like that one, that tightens on the dog's nose, normal ones don't.

A friend saw a dog break his neck in a headcollar, a lot of damage can be done to the neck with them. When Victoria recommends them she also teaches the owner how to use them, very few people are taught this, they just put them on the dogs. Did you have any instruction in how to use it? I don't mean written instructions but someone who took the trouble to show you have to use it.

I find it absolutely preposterous that you disagree with the very person that this web site is named after.

Just because this is Victoria's board doesn't mean I have to think the same way she does, Victoria goes by her experiences, I go by mine.

[josie1918]

Back at ya

[Mattie]

Josie, All headcollars should have a lead clipped to them AND another lead clipped to the collar or harness. You walk the dog on the collar or harness not on the headcollar. You only use the headcollar when you need to.

From what you have told us, you don't use it properly because you don't know how. Using any gadget properly does reduce any damage they can do to a dog tremendously, used wrong, they can kill your dog.

How much research did you do before you put a headcollar on this dog?

Did you get shown how to use it properly?

As a trainer or behaviourist been out to watch what is happening and advised you to use one of these?

No gadgets no matter what they are should be put on without being taught how to use them, that isn't just headcollars.

[josie1918]

Ok, everyone here is right, I taught how to use head collars at the clinic I worked for for 12 years, as I stated, I use it WITH a martigale, does anyone read??? But I can see how VERY important it is to be right here, so YOU are right, I am taking the damned thing back, I am taking the dog back to his previous owner, I am too cruel, too stupid and too Torturous to own a dog, there now is everyone here happy?????

[Leigha]

Wow, so maybe I'm overstepping my bounds, but I don't think anyone here ever insinuated that you're stupid or cruel or whatever else. I think all the others are trying to say is that UNLESS you've been trained in how to use those types of leads or whatever it's very dangerous for you to use them with your dog.

I, for instance, have never been shown how to use any of those devices so me using them with any of my dogs is a bad idea as they could all be injured. I think it's just that people see these gadgets on the shelves or racks of stores and see all the great things they're supposed to do to make your dog "better" and they buy them without having a clue how to use them properly and dogs get hurt.

If YOU have been trained to use the whatever they ares, then great, if they work for you and yours safely awesome.

The great thing about this forum is that everyone here offers advice from their personal experience, and they are only here to help. It's not about being right or wrong or anything else, it's about what's best for each owner and their pups.

[Mattie]

Back at ya

Josie, I could have taken this very differently to what I did, instead of reacting to it I explained further, that isn't treating you as stupid, just the oposite, you spoke to me in a very derogartory way.

We can only go on the information you give us, if you don't give full information that isn't our fault.

Unless people are taught how to use ANY gadget properly the dogs can suffer, even a flat collar, as you know as you have more experience than you first said, can do a lot of damage to a dog which is one of the reasons why we teach a dog to walk on a loose lead or to heal.

does anyone read???

What is this meant to mean apart from attacking everyone who reads these posts. We are all volunteers who reply to posts in our own time without any rewards apart from seeing when dogs start to improve.

I sent a link to this headcollar to a very good trainer/behaviourist to see what she thought, just had a reply this morning, she teaches owner how to use these and she won't touch this type because of the way it pulls the head down. It is what I thought, holding the head down in this way puts pressure on the muscles in the neck. Think of it this way, if your chin was held down to your chest, the muscles in your neck would very quickly start to hurt, this can happen to a dog. Not everyone is trained how to use these and unless people say they are, for the dog's sake we have to assume the handler isn't.

[josie1918]

Ok, I admit I do get very testy when I interpret remarks as alluding to the fact that I would harm, injure, or mis treat ANY animal. I have spent the better part of my life as a licensed veterinary technician, I have taken MANY advanced courses on animal behavior. The initial reason for the post was to give people who are on the verge of "dumping" or euthanizing their animals ONE more choice> Through out the years, I have seen head collars save any number of pets from the needle and shelters. I did not intend to have it become an argument, or to offend anyone. I have learned one thing in life and that is that NOT all people love their pets the same. What is just a dog to one person may be family to another. Much of the problem stems in my opinion from ignorance, like the guy who's beloved dog chased cars, his friend told him he would fix it, so they drove by his house and the "friend" leaned out the window with a 2 x 4 and hit the dog. Don't ask........... That being said, I will still tell you, this collar does NOT continuously pull his head down, it only applies pressure when he goes crazy. I have no idea how many owners this dog has had, but his last owner, he dragged into the street, thank God someone saw her and heard her screams, they helped her before she was totally into the street. She had a torn rotator cuff, sprained both her wrists, and took all the skin off her arms and hands, as well as numberous other lacerations, bruises and emotional trauma. This is not saying he did this on purpose, he is NOT a bad dog, but...................He needs work, and lots of it, I have lots of experience handling all sorts of difficult animals, but beleive me when I tell you it is IMPOSSIBLE to turn him around, or get him to focus without this tool. Who else may have a dog like this, and how many like him have already been euthanized I don't know. If the post saved one owner from this sort of trauma and danger then I still feel it was worth it. Again, my apologies for any offense

[Mattie]

Josie, when we post on these message boards we also have to take into account those people who read but don't post. Yes you have the experience to use gadgets but most of these others don't I see these gadgets abusing dogs on a regular basis because the owner has never been taught to use them.

You don't hold your dog's nose down with this, but someone with very little experience will just hold on to the lead because the dog has stopped, they won't know that have to release the hold, they don't understand that the releasing of the hold is a reward to the dog and will encourge him not to do this again.

I have no objection to any gadget if used properly but I continually see extending leads clipped to headcollars and no other lead, choke chains are still in general use but most are not even on properly. I saw a beautiful GSD go from a nervous, frightened dog into one that nearly killed someone because an electric collar had been used wrong.

When recommending anything we have to take these people into account, some of the tv trainers have a disclaimer on their programs telling people not to try their methods, we can't say on the boards these are good if you know what you are doing but lethal if you don't, owners would still try them, which is why I don't recommend gadgets.

[josie1918]

I had not thought of it in this light, again my apologies. And just so I don't scream for whats left of today, it is my opinion, ANYONE who recommends, or uses a shock collar on any animal needs to be tarred and featherd and have the collar attatched to him/herself for eternity, with me and a few others pushing the shock buttons.

[josie1918]

Just an update on my shepherd. He has now graduated from my needing to use a head collar on him. WHile using the head collar, my goal was to find what will get his attention away from cats. I have tried every toy he owned, verbal commands (lot like a teenage boy there) roast beef, chicken, hot dogs, NONE of the above worked. Finally after 5 months, I found what it is that will break his focus. I now carry a small fur collar taken off of an old winter coat, I have tied this to a piece of string, now when he sees squirrels, and (shudder) cats, He is immediately shown the moving fur which he then chases and catches, while he is being turned around. Ok, it is not exactly obedience training at it's best, but he is safe, and I am safe. People who are watching probably think I am carrying a dead rodent around in my coat pocket, all this aside, I am so relieved to have found something that breaks his focus off the cats and squirrels. The moral to the story, Rome wasn't built in a day, it takes time, especially with the rescue dogs, but what a rush when you finally find it.

[Noobs]

That's great! My dog gets really focused on squirrels and cats as well. In the last year I've gotten him to the point where he is able to see a cat from a fair distance and be able to do "watch me" with pieces of hot dog. He used to lunge and go crazy no matter how far away the cat was, but now he can tolerate them from a distance and if they're a little closer he shows stress signals first (huffing, low growl) and then if I move him back far enough that can break his focus. I think using a furry fake animal is a great idea and I may try it, although I will have to play "give" and "drop" with it indoors first I'm sure. Thanks for sharing!

[swampy]

We tried the anti-pull harness when we got our six month old Westie. It does make dogs pull differently. They kinda hunker down and pull sideways with their butts out, but they still pull. My personal opinion is that harnesses are useless for training.

[Mattie]

We tried the anti-pull harness when we got our six month old Westie. It does make dogs pull differently. They kinda hunker down and pull sideways with their butts out, but they still pull. My personal opinion is that harnesses are useless for training.

No harness will train a dog, the owner has to do the training, relying on a harness to stop a dog from pulling won't work. No gadget no matter what it is for will train a dog, if the owner doesn't put the time and effort into the training, their dog will stay out of control and pulling on the lead.

[Noobs]

Swampy most people here agree with you that tools are useless without training. I think they are helpful with management in conjunction with training, but for example for a dog that pulls, no matter what he or she is wearing on the head, neck, body, the dog will continue to pull as long as the handler allows the dog to get in front of him/her. Simple as that.

[Mattie]

Swampy, I notice on your web site that you are advertising spray collars on dogs, these gadgets are not allowed on here, we can discuss them but they can't be recommended.