Positive gundog training - lovely video

[Horace's Mum]

This is a demo from crufts this year, and is a real delight to watch. I want that little cocker!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT7MMgqU ... ture=share

[ClareMarsh]

I grinned all the way through this, delightful

[Erica]

So cute. The cocker's having so much fun!

[DogNut]

Very nice, and beautiful dogs. But I'd be more impressed if she was demonstrating the same level of training with Rottweilers, GSDs, Anatolian Shepherds, or Huskies, who are not instictually and genetically programmed for retrieving, as are Labs, Goldens, and Cocker Spaniels. IMHO the treats were overused, and seemed to be the primary reason why the dogs focused so strongly on the handler (especially on the treats and the hand and bag that held them).

Many years ago I took my dog to a positive/clicker traing class as an observer, and there were three dogs and their handlers who were trying to get their dogs to walk with a loose leash. One of the dogs was very reactive to the others, and was barking and lunging and causing the other dogs to lose focus. So when they tried to walk their dogs back and forth, they dispensed treats almost every step, but it did not really work, and the trainer eventually told the handler with the reactive dog to "take a hike". But by then they had actually run out of treats, so the class could not continue. My dog stayed at my side calmly and quietly, and the trainer said he was the best behaved in the class, and was "too advanced" for the beginner class.

Also, I disagree that more traditional training always involves severe punishment and fear, or that it always destroys the bond of trust between dog and handler, or that the dogs are unhappy. There may be some brutal trainers and sadistic owners who try to dominate their dogs with force and painful punishment, but I think this is rare, and an unfair comparison. I agree that positive reinforcement should be the primary method, but it should stand on its own merit and not be contrasted with a distorted image of "balanced" training that works for many people without abuse and pain and fear. I think these are only caused by a minority of emotionally unstable, impatient, and frustrated people who have unpredictable, demanding and violent personalities.

[Nettle]

Many years ago I took my dog to a positive/clicker traing class as an observer, and there were three dogs and their handlers who were trying to get their dogs to walk with a loose leash. One of the dogs was very reactive to the others, and was barking and lunging and causing the other dogs to lose focus. So when they tried to walk their dogs back and forth, they dispensed treats almost every step, but it did not really work, and the trainer eventually told the handler with the reactive dog to "take a hike". But by then they had actually run out of treats,

One rubbish trainer doesn't mean that the system is rubbish too.

I don't use treats when training loose leash walking and have yet to find a dog i can't get to walk on a loose leash withing ten minutes of training. I tell owners it'll take me ten minutes to train the dog and forty to train them. This is using positive reward-based methods


I have yet to find any 'traditional' method of training loose-leash walking that works as quickly or as well. Or even at all - many people who come to me have been using leash-pops, choke chains and similar aversives for years - but their dogs still don't walk nicely on the lead.

[minkee]

I'd love to see what Scout would make of it, Nettle She'll walk _okay_ on a loose lead - but she tends to take her name VERY seriously!

[Horace's Mum]

Dognut, I rather think you have missed the whole point of the demo if you would rather be impressed by a different breed - she is a gundog handler, therefore she handles gundogs! I think you also need to listen carefully to what she says and watch more closely, as well as consider what and incredibly stressful and unnatural environment a ring demo at a place like crufts is.

I have a dog who is not an inherently easy breed, and is deaf, and has been abused, but he asks to work for me in the same way that those dogs ask to work for their handlers, whether I have food or not. Food was important in the beginning, but is not necessary now. I would have to suggest that you haven't got to grips with the way positive/reward/clicker training work when done properly (and this is repeated in the video) if you suggest that they are focussed only on the food and not the handler.