Please can you help?

[Veronica]

Hi,I am new, looking for advice please.
Its a long story

I have a dog called snowy, he is two years come this may, he is a white German Shepard,I brought him when he was 15 weeks old,he was a puppy you should walk away from.
he was the last puppy left,and barked and hid under things on viewing.
once I got him home he got on well with my jack Russell and seemed more confident,he was scared of the hover and things like that.

After his jabs I took him out for a walk,and it showed he was scared of other people,I took him to a puppy dog classes, where he spent all his time barking at people hiding under tables,I didn't like the way the class wanted to deal with his nervousness, so left

I then got a one to one trainer,who was kind,he taught me lots, and snowy lots sitting, staying lots,not walking in doors before me and so on, but he couldn't help snowy in being more confident when he is out and about.

when I take him for a walk he walks by my side,but going home he pulls to get home,

he did lunge at people and bark at them,so I brought a muzzle, and a none pull harness,but he still was able to lunge at people,so I have a dogmatic now with a double ended lead.

he wont eat tip bits when out,wont touch any food, so you can't use tip bits,also a while ago we found out he suffers from Exocrine pancreatic insufficiency,so had to change his diet and he is doing well on it now, so he can't have any tip bits now anyway.

he wont wee or poo out on a walk no matter how long you take him out for,he will wait till he comes home in the garden to go.

the trainer I had said it was because he wont put himself in a valuable position, I recently brought him a Anxiety Wrap to wear on his walks but its not made any difference,

so that's it in short, at home he is full of confidence but out he is very scared,

can you give me any advice please??

Thank you

[GundogGuy]

Hi,
This sounds like a biggy... Have you tried contacting a properly qualified behaviourist? You may find someone here http://www.capbt.org/...

It looks to me like you have attempted to do all the right things but perhaps the people you approached were not equipped for your issue. I know I'm not (yet) and even if I was equipped enough to help you, there are major issues sometimes with trying to advise on a case when you can't actually see what's going on...

Regarding the puppy class who you "didn't like the way the class wanted to deal with his nervousness"... Do you mind me asking what their approach was? I'm asking this because I've rehabilitated a number of nervous pups the worst of which are advised not to come to puppy class until some remedial work is done. Another didn't come back when I told the owner to stop babying the pup and rewarding it's nervousness...

[Veronica]

Thank you for the link,I did do a search and only two trainers where I am and they are miles and miles away,too far.

well at that puppy class,they did a group walk,snowy wouldn't walk ,so they were going to put the chain lead he had over his muzzel and drag him to make him walk,also they were forcing him out of under the tables from where he was hiding,it wasn't to my liking of dealing with him being so scared.so I left and never took him back.

I think with Snowy he wasn't socialized as a puppy from the breeders.thats whats wrong with snowy,I need advice in helping him over come his fear of people when out please

[Nettle]

I don't actually think you have that much of a problem - more that you have been rushing him a little, and that's not to blame you in any way.

Kudos for keeping away from the class that used methods with which you weren't happy.

Now then - homework study our threads on reactive dogs and see what progress others on the Board have made and how they have come so far. You can do this too.

Come back with your questions - we love questions - honestly, this isn't going to be impossible, just that you will need baby steps and constant vigilance, as well as allowing yourself to feel proud of small progressions.

[Veronica]

Thank you Nettle, have you got a link for that,as there are so many threads on here,I will get lost,I willing to do anything,I have read so much and tried so much and wont stop until I can turn life around for Snowy for his walks, I just want him to enjoy his walks instead of hating them
Thank you Guys

[ladybug1802]

I agree with Nettle actually.....that you need to back off abit for a while and move forward very very slowly. I had slightly similar problems with my dog - he is fearful of styranger and it comes out in aggression. He would lunge and snap at people (he still will if strangers stare at him or bend over him - which I make sure they dont now -= but he is a lot better now. Have a look for my previous posts and the advice I got as it has worked wonderfully. Just click on my name and then on my previous posts....it would be a VERY long post iof I put everything down here!

[GundogGuy]

Thank you for the link,I did do a search and only two trainers where I am and they are miles and miles away,too far.

well at that puppy class,they did a group walk,snowy wouldn't walk ,so they were going to put the chain lead he had over his muzzel and drag him to make him walk,also they were forcing him out of under the tables from where he was hiding,it wasn't to my liking of dealing with him being so scared.so I left and never took him back.

I think with Snowy he wasn't socialized as a puppy from the breeders.thats whats wrong with snowy,I need advice in helping him over come his fear of people when out please

If you PM me your location I'll see if I can find someone reputable for you...

Thats not a puppy class, it's a boot camp... I wish we were regulated and licensed so that this kind of thing can be controlled...

I actually disagree with Nettle (not meaning to be rude) but I think that if I'm reading your post as you intend it to be read then you have quite a complex issue and I think you are right, the root of the problem lies with the time this pup spent (or didn't spend) with its litter mates... You've had this dog from 15 weeks and it's now almost 2 years old... That's a long time to have an issue...

However, I also think that you are engaged enough and 'switched on' enough to perhaps glean some information from the posts on here but I also think you should definitely get someone on site to give you 1:1 guidance...

[Veronica]

Thank you Guys, I have had a brief look-read, ahhhhhhhhhhh I can see where I have been going wrong,I have been trying to get him to face his fears instead of protecting his fears,also last trainer who done flooding which didn't work,taking him to a busy town and walking through the people, it didn't work.

example yesterday I took his out, and sat at a bench letting him look at all the traffic going past,a van stopped on the other side and a man got out,he was getting scared and wanted to go but instead I thought it was good for him to stay and watch the van and man, in thinking he would see there wasn't anything to worry about, I can see where I have been going wrong, I should have got his attention away from the van and man and walked away from his fear.

Thank you Guys, on to read and read and read more

[ladybug1802]

Thank you Guys, I have had a brief look-read, ahhhhhhhhhhh I can see where I have been going wrong,I have been trying to get him to face his fears instead of protecting his fears,also last trainer who done flooding which didn't work,taking him to a busy town and walking through the people, it didn't work.

example yesterday I took his out, and sat at a bench letting him look at all the traffic going past,a van stopped on the other side and a man got out,he was getting scared and wanted to go but instead I thought it was good for him to stay and watch the van and man, in thinking he would see there wasn't anything to worry about, I can see where I have been going wrong, I should have got his attention away from the van and man and walked away from his fear.

Thank you Guys, on to read and read and read more

Ah yes!! That is indeed what I was doing initially.......instead of getting him used to it (which is what i thought initially) it made my poor boy way more stressed, and in turn, i becamse a bag of nerves as well!!! I think once you have backed off, and kept him away from things he finds fearful for a while, then you will be able to gradually build up to sitting on that bench and watching things like that, once you find the distance he is comfortable with.

[Veronica]

Thank you
you know I see what your all saying, also yesterday there was someone riding a horse on the road when I was on sitting on the bench,I moved him away and myself away to the back of the bench a bit of distance away because I was scared of him trying to lung at the horse and scaring the horse,snowy seemed not scared of watching the horse go by, which suprised me, I never even thought it was because I put him a safe distance for him to cope with.but it all makes sence now.

[GundogGuy]

Thank you
you know I see what your all saying, also yesterday there was someone riding a horse on the road when I was on sitting on the bench,I moved him away and myself away to the back of the bench a bit of distance away because I was scared of him trying to lung at the horse and scaring the horse,snowy seemed not scared of watching the horse go by, which suprised me, I never even thought it was because I put him a safe distance for him to cope with.but it all makes sence now.

Good luck

[Veronica]

I thought you guys would like to see snowy on some videos
showing some of the work that gone into helping snowy with his fears

This is an up to date video,taken last week
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWh_1fU7XaY

This is snowy when he was on a no pull harness,which was great until he saw someone


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b9u15tG0T0

this is him with clicker at home full of confidence learning to shut the door

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_MLmw9udfo

this is him a year ago,some of the training I have done, trying to get him to over come his fear of people

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UiDkcD7x34

and one to one trainer with flooding

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU3bvHjQjOI

a year ago

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npqwjKR-f3A

[Labsrule]

Hello, do you have a friend who has a calm, laid back dog that you could walk Snowy with to help him gain some confidence? Often fearful dogs will gain courage in the company of calm canine friends. Best of Luck.

[jacksdad]

first, handsome feller you have there

watching your videos, I was going to comment that you were taking him too far to fast just like nettles said...but it looks like you already figured it

And I am soooooo glad you followed your instincts and didn't continue working with the trainers you have made contact with so far. The trainer in the flooding video was asking Snowy to deal with step 100 difficulty in rehabilitation, when you needed to actually be backing things off and working at steps 1, 2 and 3.

While GunDog is right, a really good behaviorist/trainer is a nice thing to have, if that isn't an option whatever reason if you are willing to do a little reading and continue being patient, you can still help snowy

Two books I highly recommend
http://www.scaredydog.info/index.html
http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/produc ... eisty-fido

both these books deal with fearful dogs, and their examples are the what seems to be the more common reaction to fear, an offensive more aggressive display. BUT the concepts apply to dogs that might be more inclined to withdraw or shutdown. if you do get the books, and your not sure how to adapt the techniques and concepts please, please post and ask for help.

But for the moment, I would encourage you to find the distance that snowy can know humans are around, but not really care and do your best to keep that for a little while. Believe me, he will KNOW they are there even if he isn't going into his reactive mode, be that displays of aggression, or shutting down. then do your best to pair those experiences with something rewarding. if he will take a tasty treat, that is easiest. some dogs will enjoy a chance to play with a special toy that only comes out on walks. some dogs actually do well with a quick game of tug o' war because for them its a good way to release tension. other dogs it winds them up which you don't want to happen to snowy in this context. you just have to carefully experiment if your not sure what is rewarding for snowy.

[GundogGuy]

Stunning dog!!!

Just a thought from my side at the moment. Unless I'm missing something, there isn't a video on there of Snowy reacting? or is there?

I read about a GSD not so long ago (I think it was in one of the APDT kind of case studies books) who would not eat anything. It turned out that it wouldn't eat because it was on 'guard' duty... I think (and my memory may be playing tricks on me here) that this dog was so switched on to it's duty of protecting the home that it just wouldn't relax enough to eat... They discovered that if they took the dog to the garden, it would eat fine

I'm not making a diagnosis here but from the vids you posted... would it be possible that your dog is switching on to 'guard' mode rather than being fearful?