Dog with loads of issues

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princesskitten
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:41 am

Dog with loads of issues

Post by princesskitten »

I consider myself a fairly experienced handler - but this lad has so much going on I would be grateful for any hints and tips.

Alfie has is 14 months old (mixed breed) and I have had him from rescue for about 3 months. He has made huge progress already - and I know it will take a couple of years to build his confidence. I knew it would be a challenge when I took him on - I felt I could put in the work to help him cope.

Where we started - He has basically lived all his life in a cage - he has no people / social / house skills - is severely agoraphobic - has panic attacks -
drools and pants excessively - he crawls along the ground as low as he can get when out in the street. He has food issues / noise issues and is scared of men / pushchairs / shopping trollies / bikes / his own shadow. He spent the first 3 days wedged under a chair refusing to come out and refusing to eat. He is nervous submissive. He is not a family dog - and he would have sat in the pound forever.

Where we are now. He is sleeping well - takes handling - has his teeth cleaned and his belly washed. He stands up much better when out walking and is alert - watching - with his ears up and watching (propper walks are a long way off - but we can go round the corner to work). He comes to the shop with me everyday and is getting a little better with people. He is 90% 'dry' - I am still trying to paper train him for his morning poo with mixed results. He has not had a panic attack for several weeks - but is still bad in the car. He comes to his name - and he sits outside the shop door while I unlock - and he can play 'the hidden treat' game - but we are nowhere near starting formal training. He is still struggling with food issues - and the wind and rain terrify him. He loves to snuggle up with me and is bonding really well. the vet has given him the all clear - but says that although he was not malnourished he has nutritional issues and will probable always have to use anti mite liquid and have a tighter worming routine.

There is so much going on in there that it is hard to untangle it all - but he has the sweetest, most loving nature that I have ever come across. I have to confess it's exhausting!!!!!! He is such a star, and trying so hard to learn.

Any little tips would be welcome - there is not a lot of help out there at this level. Thank you
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JudyN
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Location: Dorset, UK
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Re: Dog with loads of issues

Post by JudyN »

Oh look at that face :D I'm not an expert, so the following is just what I've gleaned here and there (mostly here :wink: ). I also have a friend who has rehabilitated one traumatised rescue from Romania and has another who I fear will never be rehabilitated - after seven months she can stroke him (though he's not keen) and still can't get a collar on him.

So you may never be able to 'mend' Alfie completely but as you say, you have made a lot of progress.

Less is more for him - back off, reduce the pressure on him to as near zero as possible. Avoid everything that worries him, as far as possible. Don't let people approach him - if you can get him to be comfortable with people (pushchairs, whatever) in the distance and not interacting or approaching him, then you may be able to gradually reduce the distance. But for now, try to get his world to bend to him rather than bending him to the big scary world. Three months may feel like a long time but he's really starting life from scratch and, unlike a puppy, he has a lot of bad experiences behind him. Plus he's missed socialisation windows so, again, there may be some things that can't be fixed.

You might be able to desensitise him to the car - depending on how he is now, this might just be treating him when he walks past the car till he can do that comfortably, then treating him if he looks at the car, then opening the door and closing it... if all goes well, you could encourage him to jump into the car, sit in there with him and give him treats, then get out. Work through you being in the driver's seat, then starting the engine without going anywhere, then driving a foot or two... and so on and so forth.

What are his issues around food? Can you describe exactly what happens, when? Also, what do you feed him, and how often?
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
princesskitten
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Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:41 am

Re: Dog with loads of issues

Post by princesskitten »

Thank you.

Yes - sitting in the car for a bit would be a great idea. I will add a little of that

When I first had him he would rush up to his bowl - grab a mouthful and go away to eat it - then creep back in and grab another etc - etc.

Now he will go up to his bowl - eat 2 or 3 mouthfuls then run away. He does not run and hide and he is coming back more quickly - so we have progres.

I get that it's nerves and he does not feel safe to stay in one place and keep his head in his bowl. He likes me to be with him when he eats so I try to stay fairly still and quite while still pottering about as normal so he gets used to movement as unthreatening in the background. He is not good at taking food from my hands yet - better if I put my hand flat on the floor. I am also giving him lots of smaller meals throughout the day rather than one big meal at night - so it's just all part of the day rather than one big - you have to eat meal. I bake for dogs so he gets lots of lovely wholesome, smelly, fresh treats - and he really goes nuts for them.

I don't expect He will ever be froloking over the fells - but I would like he to be able to have little walks round the town.
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Nettle
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Re: Dog with loads of issues

Post by Nettle »

Re: the eating pattern - that is in fact perfectly normal canine behaviour. It's the standing over the bowl eating in one place (that we have come to expect) that isn't, in fact, normal. I have had puppies (bred by me so no trauma at all) that, for the first year or so, wouldn't eat from a bowl at all.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

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princesskitten
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Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:41 am

Re: Dog with loads of issues

Post by princesskitten »

Really, really pleased with both of us today.

I knew Alfie needed a wee - but it's windy and he would not go into the garden - he was doing the terrier walk about - so I put his lead on and went out. 2 houses along he had the longest wee ever!!! Huge success that he has built up enough muscle strength and awareness - and could hang on and know he wanted to go out - and brownie points to me for picking up on it!!!!

I know he will still have accidents - but I really hope that we are on the home stretch for the weeing now
JudyN
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Re: Dog with loads of issues

Post by JudyN »

Woo hoo!!! Well done both of you! :D
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
jacksdad
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Re: Dog with loads of issues

Post by jacksdad »

princesskitten wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:23 am...we are nowhere near starting formal training.
honestly, most of what people think of as "normal" training is extremely low on your priority list.

top priority, helping him feel safe in his new world. helping him learn to trust you to protect him and not push thing beyond what he is able to handle. that is far, far more important right now than "traditional obedience" type training. The sit, down, recall etc will slip in as needed and as he is able.

expose him to the world slowly and in small bites. go only as far as he is able to without signs of distress/anxiety. do not hesitate to comfort and be there for him. had one dog I worked with on a walk just sat down and would not budge when a dog was barking near by. it was too much. so I sat next to him, talked soothing to him about the weather or some silly thing like that, gave him long slow pets down his back...about 10 min later he was ok to move on. this is a dog who on my first session walked about 5 min from the house, on a deserted fire trail, no other dogs, people, cars, noises, etc...and then had a anxiety attack, turned and ran home...with me holding the leash running right there with him....when a 100 pound mastiff says I am going home...who am I to disagree :lol:

By taking it at his pace we went from 10 to 15 min walks, then turn and run home, never once going to the bathroom outside to walking through our down town open air mall with lights, cars, people, noise and smells, street dogs etc.

Keep him safe, move at his pace, don't worry about what kind of progress he may or may not make, take it one day at a time and he will surprise you.
LovelyLaura
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Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:10 pm

Re: Dog with loads of issues

Post by LovelyLaura »

Hi Princesskitten and Alfie!

You have taken on a huge challenge, but if it is anything like me and my Charlie, every little bit of progress feels like we have won the lottery.

Charlie is now 6 months old, but was originally a pound rescue with mum and 9 siblings, to a shelter, where we adopted him from. Two weeks in he had a freak accident and very badly broke his leg, 4 operations and an infection in the leg later, and he had it amputated. But this all meant he spent 3 weeks in the vets and at least 10 days alone in medical isolation. That was all back in April and we still haven't even tried to start "formal" training. We teach him things as he needs to learn them. For example: "lie down" was learnt on his first few days back from the vet with 3 legs and after 5 minutes of literally being your shadow and he was exhausted and so unstable on the one back leg. Thankfully Charlie will do pretty much anything for food, so today we dropped my friend of at the train station and then we walked in the car park until the train came - it took pretty much half the bag of super yummy treats, but he was totally happy to look towards the fence and then back at me, so he got a treat, and then we kept doing it until the train left again, and then we went for another big walk :D

The main thing that caught my eye in the thread was the toileting. This was something that even before Charlie became "extra special" I was so panickie and wound up over - he was 8 weeks old and literally peed EVERYWHERE, and it seemed like it was every half hour! But in the garden (freezing my *** off in Ireland in March), he could literally hold for 2 hours or more and then pee the second my back was turned to close the door! It was when he came home without the leg at 13 weeks old and was physically unable to be "forced" to stay outside until he went, so that was when my attitude to it all changed - I used it as the opportunity to re-new my teatowls, and I just kept an old basin on the kitchen bench, the pile of old teatowels and a spray bottle of diluted cleaner (the special "pee" type), and we just mop it up, and wiped it down, for only a few weeks and then he learned that he got totally ignored when he peed inside, but if he peed in the garden, O...M...G... he got food! :D it still look time for the final accident to stop, but we have been total clean in the house now for several weeks if not months? He still "technically" gets a treat when he pees outside, but instead of being a super valueable, super yummy one, its usually a piece of kibble! :lol: He is no less excited after he wees to come running over to me - even if someone else has let him out! :lol: We also got him "potty bells" as a friend recommended them and they work a treat for us - but we had to put them away at the start - they became a tug toy to chew on (about 9 weeks old) and he was afriad of the noise for about the first week he was back home (at 13 weeks old), so I put them away again for about 10 days, as I was keen to not let him get a negative association with them :D

Generally I would just say, don't stress too much - Charlie is 6 months old and has literally never been left alone (he totally lost it when you would go to the bathroom yourself and close the door, when he came home from the vets), so we have just spent the last 3 months letting him get his confidence up. People, including close family, have told me that I should have had him put down instead of amputating his leg as he has totally ruined my/our life, etc! Yes its tough - the other half goes to Tesco and literally spends the entire time on the phone, so we can sort out what we need and we haven't had a date night since we got him (bar the weekend we went to Birmingham and got engaged! :roll: :lol: :lol: :lol: - so I guess that in itself makes up for it! :D ), but we both love nothing more than to snuggle on the sofa with Charlie ususally on top of us both! Or have a lazy Saturday morning with Charlie in the bed having cuddles! I wouldn't change him for the world! :D
Mamma to Charlie - a Lurcher x Collie puppy born in late Jan 2017 :D

Gotcha Day - 22nd March 2017
Tri-pawd Day - 20th April 2017
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