Occasional but getting regular fear/ agression towards owner

[worriedaboutmydog]

Hi there, this seems like such a helpful community and I am in dire need of help.
I figured I'd make it into a bulletpoint list to make it easier to read?

*pup is 6months old, mother a lab/collie mix, father unknown, but pup does have a lot of doberman colouring. black with brown bum and on legs under chin and on cheeks etc

*was slightly bold but well enough behaved, no potty accidents inside since 3weeks of owning him

*we own a 7month old kitten that we got days before our pup, they play fight a lot but when we seperate them they wait for us to leave them alone so they can play again, the cat usually has no claws out, so we've come to realise its friendly fun.

*We live in a small townhouse, on a steep hill. Myself (female, 28,work from home at the moment) and my male partner and we have a male housemate.

*he free feeds as he is not greedy and only eats when hungry. Burns puppy food is what we give him. He gets up between 7am and 8 am with us and goes to bed at 11.30pm or midnight (depending on who puts him to bed, even if we stay up later we put him to bed so he has a routine). We take him on either four shourter (30minute walks) or one long and two shorter walks (an hour and 20/30mintes respectively) He flat out refuses to go outside when its raining heavily.


*trouble started on monday 10th october around 10am

*he was upstairs lounging around on our bed next to me as I was writing my thesis. Was petting him in between sentences, he was waggy tailed and happy out.

*he rambled off downstairs to see what my partner (working from home that day) was doing in the kitchen

*less than 5minutes later partner calls me in panic, our dogs face was starting to swell, within a few minutes his entire head had become really lumpy and misshapen and his eyes were starting to get really red and closing.

*we went to emergency vet via a taxi that we managed to hail outside, must be noted that our dog was in great form, he didnt mind us touching his face or head or opening his mouth or looking in his ears/eyes etc. Got to the vets within 15minutes.

*they checked him over in a back room, they didn't bring us in to the room with him, and checked his throat etc, no swelling there so that was a relief, he got an antihistamine shot and a 5days antibiotic shot. Lots of questioning from the vets about what it was, we still have no idea.

*he wasnt near any chemcials or makeup or perfume, there was nothing new brought into the house etc and he didnt come in contact with anyone in the few minutes between leaving me and going into the kitchen.

*The swelling goes down and we take him on a two hour stroll because we needed a nice calm walk to relieve the fear/stress.

*that night at 4am he manages to open the door from the kitchen (where his bed is) and come up stairs to our room, where we let him sleep curled around my feet for the rest of the night (we get up at 7am)

*Next day we're both working from home again (I always do, he only sometimes can), we're on our living room couch, pup is curled up in between us as ususal. HE suddenly wakes up and starts growling/making a high pitched sound at me, and when i look at him he looks terrified, whites of his eyes showing, ears right back and tail completely down. I was shocked and automatically reached out to pet and reassure him. He snarled and snapped at me and then lunged for my face.

*I got up and stood in the centre (of the small) room, my partner held our pup and calmed him down. He still remained growling/snarling at me.

*I left the room and cried up stairs in our bedroom

*abut 2 hours later pup comes looking for me and is all wags and licks etc

*ever since then he has become wildly unpredictable but ONLY in relation to me.

*All three of us (housemate included) were watching a film in the living room on the 14th when i moved my foot and crossed my ankles the other way, this earned me a vicious growl snarl and another lunge and snap. He continues growling and snapping at me when I extend my hand towards him, but lets housemate and partner pet him with no problems, and even wags his tail and licks them (they were less than 30centimetres from me)

*every day there's at least one occasion where he growls and lunges at me, usually when I'm sitting somewhere or just coming into a room. Once when my partner was eating biscuits on the couch and pup was curled up beside him asleep, I got up to use the bathroom and he lunges across my partner and snaps inches from my face.

*on the 14th after a particularly bad snap where he launched himself from his bed across about 5metres of empty space and lept up at my face snapping, my partner took him to the vets and they gave him a clean bill of health, no underlying medical problems apparently? We even got a calming pet room fragrance from the vet shop. (again, within seconds he was calm and waggy with me and gave no indication of what happened moments before)

*He is well behaved on the 16th and he comes up to sit on the bed as we both sat reading there, he is curled up between us, with his head on my knee and I am petting him. Suddenly he growls and snaps towards my face but i raise my hand and he gets my finger, he drew blood from where his teeth scraped the top layer of skin off my middle finger.

(now he''s never clamped down hard, not really bites just like his teeth occasionally scape on me...but his behaviour is absolutely terrifying-I have been trying to behave stoic and calm around him so as not to frighten or stress him any further than he already is during these situations)

*we were in the kitchen on the 18th, myself and partner at the kitchen table, drinking tea, and housemate is making a sandwich near the sink. Pup is over investigating sandwich making process as you'd expect. I have my back to him, looking in completely the opposite direction, and i pull down my jumper at the side and he lunges for me from the other side of the kitchen and snaps millimetres from my arm. No warning growl.

*yesterday the 19th we had very good behaviour most of the day, only two rumbling growls which i disapated with his name said in a bright voice and lots of chat towards him.

*today the 20th he seems to be just as good as yesterday. I took him for a 40minute walk (20minutes uphill and 15minutes of a very hectic run around on a big grassy area where there was no body present). He's very well behaved until about 15minutes after we return from the walk. He's licking his paws a lot and I'm in the living room, he's lying on the floor in the hallway, he then comes into the living room and growls and snarls and snaps at my face, I put my legs out (I'm quite short) to physically but gently hold him back from my face, he snaps at my feet. I manage to get off the couch and tell him sternly to sit, which he does, and manage to get him to stop growling and follow me into the kitchen.

*he hides under the kitchen table and refuses to come out. So I left him there for about ten minutes while I calmed my heart rate and gathered myself. Go back into him, and he's lying on his bed, I can tell that he will snap if i go near his safe spot, so I stay near the door and talk brightly to him until he eventually comes over and gets petting from me. (there was nobody else in the house at this time so it can't be a jealousy thing). HE is now asleep, curled up with his head on my lap.

*we have a behaviourist booked for the 29th of october, but 9 days feels like a very long and stressful time to wait.

The problem is he's absolutely fine and normal 99% of the time, and very gentle and loving and looking for fuss etc, and nothing but love in his eyes, but those other 1% of times it's either fear or anger or both when he stares at me and growls etc.

It's incredibly upsetting. I have never even stood on his paw or tail, always been careful around him, we would never use punitive methods to discipline but this is getting out of control.

PLEASE I REALLY NEED HELP, I CAN GIVE ANY DETAILS NEEDED, I JUST WANT MY KIND HAPPY PLACID PUPPY/DOG BACK.

(if its important: he's not nuteured but he is only 6.5months)

(sorry for the long post but I was reading a lot of other posts on this forum and couldn't find any behaviour quite like this, where the dog is hot and cold but only to one person (his primary caretaker really))

[JudyN]

THANK YOU for the detailed post - it really does help. And I can understand how upsetting and worrying this must be for you. I'm not an expert, but didn't want you to have to wait long for a reply so will share what I can.

My dog's face swelled up once like that after coming into the garden, and I can only assume he was stung by a bee. So it's possible there was a bee or similar, maybe tangled in his fur. And I would guess that he somehow associated this, and the stress of the vet visit, with you - we can only speculate why, as you'd think you would have noticed if he was stung while you were petting him, but dogs can sometimes form seemingly random associations which probably make perfect sense to them.

I would, for now, avoid sharing sofas or beds with him, or even petting him if he hasn't solicited it. Don't be over-friendly with him - he might find your eye contact worrying.

Other than that, I don't feel qualified to advise as his behaviour is so unpredictable, but hopefully someone more knowledgeable will be along soon.

Just a couple of questions: at what age did you get him, and what do you know of the behaviourist you have booked? (Because there are still those who will tell you you just need to be more alpha.)

[emmabeth]

Hi there,

I'd also like to know the answers to the questions Judy has asked - and yes I would be looking at potentially your dog has mistakenly linked something unpleasant occurring with your presence..

If I were coming out to see you, I would want to liase with your vet, I'd want a full work up done specifically looking for things causing pain particularly sudden sharp pain, but also for any signs of neurological issues - is your dog insured? Would that cover an MRI scan?

A good behaviourist should be able to pin point signs of behavioural issues or 'things that are definitely not right but might be neurological' issues - but I would also be thinking about referral to a veterinary behaviourist, who will either take over from a behaviour consultant entirely or work alongside them depending on what their findings are.


I would echo Judy's words of caution about whoever it is you are going to see - theres a good chance the root of this issue is in pain, and it may be the type of pain that vets are not fabulous at diagnosing (ie, doesnt show up on an xray, muscular/soft tissue pain, tends to be a bugger to diagnose!) - so I would be looking at seeing a Ttouch practitioner and/or a doggy chiropractic or massage person as well.

In the meantime, do whatever you can do to manage your dog safely, to encourage him to move away from you rather than to go for you (if that means lobbing a handful of cheese or treats at him.. do that!) and keep his stress levels down as much as possible.

Whilst we ABSOLUTELY do not recommend or encourage setting a dog up to perform a behaviour so it can be observed.. if there IS any chance someone can video his behaviour it could be useful - but obviously safety must come first!

[worriedaboutmydog]

thank you both for such quick and helpful replies!

The woman we've booked is actually a veterinarian behaviourist, she's German and she believes in positive training and she runs behaviour classes for vet technicians (that's as far as I know about her) she was recommended by our vet.

Just looked up dog chiropractor (I didn't know they existed!) and there's only 7 registered people in the country (we don't drive so it could be a bit of a a problem to get to one, but if we need to we will figure out a way).

And no unfortunately we don't have insurance, we have enough to afford our pets, food, bills, rent and the occasional vet trip, but we're pretty low on funds as it is at the moment, but again we will find a way to pay for an mri if he needs one!

It's the fact that he's so unpredictable that's so upsetting, he will be an absolute angel for hours and hours and suddenly turns almost vicious, and then be fine again five seconds later.

We don't think he got stung by any bees, he bit a wasp earlier this summer and it was a localised swelling that went down when i pulled the sting out and he's avoided bees/wasps since then and lets the cat deal with them!

I have been trying to avoid antagonising him by not going near his bed at all, and not going near any chair that's near his bed, I have been avoiding taking him anywhere near our bedroom too. The living room is small so he it's hard to put distance between us in there. I have been avoiding putting my head anywhere near his level to avoid putting myself in harms way.

It feels silly to say this, but I feel like I can sense a few seconds before he growls that he's going to do it? Does that make sense? So I know we can video it at some point soon if we need to.


We got him at 8 weeks old, and he's never been away from us since we got him, we both love him so much, it's beyond heartbreaking.

I really wish he could talk.

thank you again for the replies, i really appreciate it

[Erica]

It's likely you're picking up on some subtle signal before he growls - maybe he goes very still, or gives some other body language that you don't know to look for but subconsciously recognize.

The behaviorist sounds like a good option. Fingers crossed she can see what's going on and give you a plan to help! This is an unusual circumstance.

I've found that even dogs who seem perfectly content being free fed relax more when given scheduled meals. I highly doubt it will fix this, but I would still suggest reconsidering the free feeding.

In preparation for the behaviorist, I would say it could help to keep a journal of details of these incidents - where in the house it happened, what time it was, what you were doing just before, what the dog had been doing the hour or so before...this might help you or the behaviorist spot a pattern or trigger which would help with the training plan You seem to have been keeping track recently, with the details you were able to give us, so contine that!

Keeping my fingers crossed for you! It seems like a very stressful time for you. We would love to be updated if you can keep us posted!

[emmabeth]

It does sound as if you are doing all you can!

Whereabouts are you (town? general area) as its possible I may know a Ttouch practitioner in your area - Ttouch practitioners do a LOT of case studies and need 'practice' dogs before othey are fully qualified and that may be a low cost way of having a second set of eyes over your dog as before they are fully qual they are not allowed to charge! They don't do anything invasive at all, so that could be an option - I recommend Ttouch as in my experience, they are VERY good at seeing things vets and others miss, in the way the dog moves and holds itself as well as general behaviour.

[worriedaboutmydog]

Okay so it's been a while, we got the vet/behaviourist out and she did an almost four hour consultation.

She determined that he has food allergies (in hindsight -which coincidentally is always 20/20 isn't it?!- he was throwing up intermittently, had bloodshot eyes, was always pawing at his ears and trying to scratch himself in midair as he walked around, and his tummy was dodgy a few days a week and he often growled before letting off wind or having a bowel movement).

We've worked out that he is allergic to lamb, chicken, soy and dairy (he would often steal pieces of my tofu), and we've put him on the Duck and Rice food from hills, and he's doing perfectly fine with it!

We don't allow him on the couch anymore, and he is very submissive now that we are firm with him. She also showed us how to walk him so that he doesn't pull the arm off you!

Now, he did nip me a few days after she came and gave the advice to us, and when i rang her to ask what to do she said immediately stop all interactions with him for at least 3weeks and to gradually reintroduce myself, to bring about a good relationship, and so far it's working. I am hoping that I can regain full confidence in him and have no residual fear that he will bite me. (I made a video of him growling which escalated into the nip so she could see exactly what happened, and I can see that I did approach him really fast and did basically all the wrong things, but I wasn't thinking straight at 6am!)

So to round up; He's stopped growling completely, he no longer farts or burps or throws up, his bowel movements are normal and no dodgy stomachs in the last three weeks since a few days after he exclusively started eating the novel (to him) food.

She thinks the reason he lashed out at only me is because I let him get away with a lot of bad behaviour towards me, jumping up at me etc, so he saw me as an easy target? I'm much firmer now, and he's responding very well to it.

I am so so so glad for all the advice here and for the vets help, I hate to think that we were hurting our dog inadvertently by feeding him food that made him ill.
Hopefully this can help someone else in the future!

[jacksdad]

Okay so it's been a while, we got the vet/behaviourist out and she did an almost four hour consultation.

She determined that he has food allergies (in hindsight -which coincidentally is always 20/20 isn't it?!- he was throwing up intermittently, had bloodshot eyes, was always pawing at his ears and trying to scratch himself in midair as he walked around, and his tummy was dodgy a few days a week and he often growled before letting off wind or having a bowel movement).

We've worked out that he is allergic to lamb, chicken, soy and dairy (he would often steal pieces of my tofu), and we've put him on the Duck and Rice food from hills, and he's doing perfectly fine with it!

We don't allow him on the couch anymore, and he is very submissive now that we are firm with him. She also showed us how to walk him so that he doesn't pull the arm off you!

Now, he did nip me a few days after she came and gave the advice to us, and when i rang her to ask what to do she said immediately stop all interactions with him for at least 3weeks and to gradually reintroduce myself, to bring about a good relationship, and so far it's working. I am hoping that I can regain full confidence in him and have no residual fear that he will bite me. (I made a video of him growling which escalated into the nip so she could see exactly what happened, and I can see that I did approach him really fast and did basically all the wrong things, but I wasn't thinking straight at 6am!)

So to round up; He's stopped growling completely, he no longer farts or burps or throws up, his bowel movements are normal and no dodgy stomachs in the last three weeks since a few days after he exclusively started eating the novel (to him) food.

She thinks the reason he lashed out at only me is because I let him get away with a lot of bad behaviour towards me, jumping up at me etc, so he saw me as an easy target? I'm much firmer now, and he's responding very well to it.

I am so so so glad for all the advice here and for the vets help, I hate to think that we were hurting our dog inadvertently by feeding him food that made him ill.
Hopefully this can help someone else in the future!

While I am glad things do seem to be improving, I disagree with some of the "reasoning" for the aggressive behavior. A dog being aggressive is never because we are being "too nice" to them. the most likely causes are, illness (such as sever allergies), pain from the illness or an injury, and of course fear.

dog's don't lash out at us because we "let them get away" with "bad" behavior. they lash out to feel safe or to end pain or scary experiences.

interpretations of unwanted dog behavior that are based on us being "too nice" or "coddling" or not being "firm" enough should be met with skepticism. The field of Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA) provides us with excellent tools for not only analyzing what is triggering a behavior (other than medical causes), but a means for actually changing behavior that have nothing to do with "being firm". ABA is the field that generates the data that lets us know that using positive reinforcement actually works and works well.

let me share an example of how there is no need to be "firm" to change behavior, even a behavior that has an element of danger to it.

One of my clients is I a 100 pound mastiff mix that has a lot of anxiety based behavior. In some situations he solution to deal with the anxiety is to grab you with his mouth. A lot of trainers/vets and such would claim that you can't allow this behavior, you MUST correct it, the dog NEEDS to know they did wrong. But they would be largely wrong. YES!!!! this behavior MUST be addressed. It can't be allowed to be the dog's "go to" behavior for dealing with anxiety/life. No disagreement there. But if it isn't about "being firm", then how does one address the behavior?

Well the first step was to understand that anxiety was behind the behavior. The dog was simply wanting something that is making him feel uncomfortable or unsafe to stop. What specifically would trigger the dog to use his mouth? being touched was one trigger. from the dog's perspective the options for making the touching stop are limited...there is barking, growling/showing teeth, and biting or garbing the "offending" hand doing the touching so that the touching stopped.

To change being touched triggering a behavior designed to stop the touching to one of "please, more touching...PLEASE!!!", we use Classical Conditioning. hand movement towards dog makes SUPER YUMMY food happen. being touched makes SUPER YUMMY food happen. done right, touching/petting/hands moving over head go from "must stop" to "please do that again, I LIKE IT".

using Classical Conditioning I am now able to pet this dog and not find my arm in his mouth. In addition I used Positive Reinforcement to tell the dog he did right when he would move to grab me, but would then stop before he actually grabbed me. I was also able to capture licking as a alternate behavior to stay "stop" by stopping what I was doing if licked AND positively reinforcing the lick.

if you are worried about your dog's aggressive behavior towards you, there are things you can do like I described above. sometimes the aggressive behavior isn't from fear/anxiety or pain, but a dog becoming overly excited and "loosing" their brains. There are ways to help with that too. Being "firm" is pretty low on the list.