I need advice asap!
Last night I was in my room with Chief and he get a night treat every night. Well he wasn't eating it so I was going to take it away so my dads dog didn't take it. Well I bend down grabbed it then he growled at me I had it in my left hand already then he growled at me. I got upset so I pointed at him and said don't you growl at me. Then he bit at my right hand. Then I told him to get out of my room. He went upstairs. I went up there and told my parents and I was going to put him outside for a bit and he wouldn't come so I grabbed his collar and he snapped at me again then kept growling as he was walking away from me. I have a vet appointment next week to see if there's an underlying issue. He's never ever done anything like this before. I have been ignoring him all day no attention and he's walking around upset.
I am so just upset and beside myself. We have such a good bond have since day one from me getting him from the abusive home and have come such a long way training wise and since Smokey passed I have become closer to him, but now I don't trust him, I'm mad at him and I am a little scared of him now and don't really know what to do.
Some information on Chief:
I have had him about 3 yrs now. He is about 5 not neutered. He gets a daily run at out local 150 dog park of hard running for about 2 hours. Yes we are doing obedience. When I first got him wasn't able to do any training he would shut down, shake and pee on himself. Now to this its hugeeeeee progress http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd89xJcp8f4" . I had behaviorist come to my house last year because he was having issues eating again(acting like he was afraid to eat) and because he was starting to get afraid to train again, but I have done the training by myself with help from people on forums when I was having trouble when I first got him.
Where I got him: Got him from my ex boyfriends (boyfriend at the time) from his exs Mom. His ex told me how they treated him. They had him since birth but the exs moms boyfriend wanted him locked in the bathroom downstairs and refused anyone to have any human contact with him. Sat in his own feces and urine for the first 1 1/2 of his life. The moms boyfriend would punch, kick him, hit him with any object that was there shove him down the stairs. The mom would slap and punch him if he didn't cooperate during a bath. They only fed him when they felt like walking down the stairs.
After I got him he was afraid of everything bags, taking off a hat he would duck for cover, the soda bottle fizz he would jump. Trying to train him was almost impossible. He would shake and pee all over himself before I could do anything then we would make progress then randomly no trigger he would freak out again and shut down and start shaking.
Chief bit me!!
Moderators: emmabeth, BoardHost
Re: Chief bit me!!
Lets look at this from his perspective for a moment.
You gave him a treat...presumably a food item of something he likes.
He chooses not to consume the treat immediately preferring perhaps to save it for later
You reach back in and steal his food (treat).
He growls to show you his discomfort and perhaps frustration that you stole back what was rightfully his
You then stick a finger/hand in his face threatening a dog who you know to be somewhat fearful.
He responds defending himself with teeth perhaps afraid that your hand was out to hit him.
You grabbed his collar and drag him...upset, angry perhaps yelling.
Now the person he loves and trusts the most is ignoring him and paying him no mind.
Have you re-examined how you approached the issue and how you could have been better:
1. Personally if I give treats to my dogs I do not take them back...we have a no take back rule. But if an item drops on the floor, I have a leave it command.
2. If my dogs are holding something they are not supposed to have I have a drop it command
Either of these can be taught with a exchange option...give up what you have for something that I have that is even better.
When your dog growls he is expressing something. Learn what it s he is communicating. a "You don't growl at me attitude" does nothing to help you or your dog and can only lead to an escalation of aggression. Respect your dog's communication. Certainly right now you are a little unnerved around him. I suspect though you want to do better for him. Take your time and have patience. Understand how your dog see things and it can help you to resolve problems before they escalate.
You gave him a treat...presumably a food item of something he likes.
He chooses not to consume the treat immediately preferring perhaps to save it for later
You reach back in and steal his food (treat).
He growls to show you his discomfort and perhaps frustration that you stole back what was rightfully his
You then stick a finger/hand in his face threatening a dog who you know to be somewhat fearful.
He responds defending himself with teeth perhaps afraid that your hand was out to hit him.
You grabbed his collar and drag him...upset, angry perhaps yelling.
Now the person he loves and trusts the most is ignoring him and paying him no mind.
Have you re-examined how you approached the issue and how you could have been better:
1. Personally if I give treats to my dogs I do not take them back...we have a no take back rule. But if an item drops on the floor, I have a leave it command.
2. If my dogs are holding something they are not supposed to have I have a drop it command
Either of these can be taught with a exchange option...give up what you have for something that I have that is even better.
When your dog growls he is expressing something. Learn what it s he is communicating. a "You don't growl at me attitude" does nothing to help you or your dog and can only lead to an escalation of aggression. Respect your dog's communication. Certainly right now you are a little unnerved around him. I suspect though you want to do better for him. Take your time and have patience. Understand how your dog see things and it can help you to resolve problems before they escalate.
Re: Chief bit me!!
Go make up to him now - I know what it's like to feel peed off with your dog, but by telling him off, grabbing his collar, etc, you are increasing the confrontation and giving him more reason not to trust you in the future. Once a dog has something, it is his, and his growl was no more of a reaction than a human would do if you walked up to them and picked up the chocolate bar in front of them that they were saving for later. It is no more than his way of saying 'Actually, that's mine, and I'd be grateful of you would let me hang on to it, please.' But you took it anyway... Although dogs differ in their ability to bite in situations like this, what Chief did was perfectly understandable. It was a wake-up call to what dogs can do, and a message that you need to handle him differently.
Once you understand Chief's behaviour, you can predict what might upset him, you will notice and respond to the growl, and so you can trust him again. You can manage the behaviour (by not trying to take food off him) so you don't need to feel afraid - biting in this situation doesn't mean he is likely to bite at any moment for any reason. And you shouldn't feel mad at him, because his behaviour was normal (that's not saying that all dogs would have reacted as he did, as there's a lot of variation - but it's still normal).
In my experience, you can have a great bond with your dog and he can still growl or bite you in certain circumstances. Chief may trust you and have a good bond with you, but you still took his food off him so he reacted accordingly.
Having said that, if you feel that he would normally have reacted differently, the vet check makes sense. Is there anything else that might have made him feel uncomfortable, e.g. a change in the weather?
Once you understand Chief's behaviour, you can predict what might upset him, you will notice and respond to the growl, and so you can trust him again. You can manage the behaviour (by not trying to take food off him) so you don't need to feel afraid - biting in this situation doesn't mean he is likely to bite at any moment for any reason. And you shouldn't feel mad at him, because his behaviour was normal (that's not saying that all dogs would have reacted as he did, as there's a lot of variation - but it's still normal).
In my experience, you can have a great bond with your dog and he can still growl or bite you in certain circumstances. Chief may trust you and have a good bond with you, but you still took his food off him so he reacted accordingly.
Having said that, if you feel that he would normally have reacted differently, the vet check makes sense. Is there anything else that might have made him feel uncomfortable, e.g. a change in the weather?
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
Re: Chief bit me!!
To add to the great advice you have already had - and I hope you feel better now you know what was going on with him - 
Love the growl. The growl is NOT an insult or an attempt to take over the world, be dominant, any other old-fashioned stuff. The growl is communication, and there are only so many ways a dog can communicate by sound. Before a dog ever growls, it tries to communicate by body language, but dog body language is fast and subtle, and we humans don't understand until we study it.
See the growl as a compliment - he thought you would listen to him. You will next time. This has taught you loads, and will, if you let it, make you an even better owner than you already are.
Love the growl. The growl is NOT an insult or an attempt to take over the world, be dominant, any other old-fashioned stuff. The growl is communication, and there are only so many ways a dog can communicate by sound. Before a dog ever growls, it tries to communicate by body language, but dog body language is fast and subtle, and we humans don't understand until we study it.
See the growl as a compliment - he thought you would listen to him. You will next time. This has taught you loads, and will, if you let it, make you an even better owner than you already are.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog
SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
Re: Chief bit me!!
Yes... What is it in us humans that brings out this "how dare you dog growl at me?! I'll show you 
" reaction?
Is it some kind of innate fear?
Anyway - I agree with what's been said. Not sure what you expect from the expert.... If you expect him to do some magic and teach Chief to never growl - that will do more damage than good. Growling in cases like this one, when the dog is in the unpleasant/uncomfortable situation, is communication indeed, and should be encouraged (by listening to the dog).
Good luck
" reaction?Is it some kind of innate fear?
Anyway - I agree with what's been said. Not sure what you expect from the expert.... If you expect him to do some magic and teach Chief to never growl - that will do more damage than good. Growling in cases like this one, when the dog is in the unpleasant/uncomfortable situation, is communication indeed, and should be encouraged (by listening to the dog).
Good luck
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guineapigs05
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:48 pm
Re: Chief bit me!!
So yesterday and today I hand fed chief in the living room and we have been play the he trade game off and on. His favorite thing is the starmark everlasting treat ball. He doesn't chew it his favorite thing to do is just carry it around the house and show it to everyone. Well yesterday we worked with it. I told him to go get it and bring it to me then he got some lunch meat, sometime he would drop it before he got all the way to me so I tell him to get it again and drop it by my feet. By the end of the day he was dropping it at my feet before I said drop it.
Today I told him to get other toys and bring them and drop them. He was having fun running after each toy and bringing it to me.
Today he was out in the field in our backyard I saw him chewing on something he was looking at me. I told him to get it and bring it. He jumped up and came to me. Though he kind of lowered his head and slowed his walking when he came close, but I told him drop it and he dropped it right away. I clapped and took of running with him.
He is learning the drop game fast but I just want to make it as positive as I can. Bringing the toys he was all happy go lucky to drop them, but the (hunk of grass lol) though he came and dropped it right away there was a little hesitation when he came close.
I know this issue is no quick fix, but it will be a slow process of little steps. Advice, comments, or tips?
I also just bought the book Mine by Jean Donaldson
Today I told him to get other toys and bring them and drop them. He was having fun running after each toy and bringing it to me.
Today he was out in the field in our backyard I saw him chewing on something he was looking at me. I told him to get it and bring it. He jumped up and came to me. Though he kind of lowered his head and slowed his walking when he came close, but I told him drop it and he dropped it right away. I clapped and took of running with him.
He is learning the drop game fast but I just want to make it as positive as I can. Bringing the toys he was all happy go lucky to drop them, but the (hunk of grass lol) though he came and dropped it right away there was a little hesitation when he came close.
I know this issue is no quick fix, but it will be a slow process of little steps. Advice, comments, or tips?
I also just bought the book Mine by Jean Donaldson
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guineapigs05
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:48 pm
Re: Chief bit me!!
I wasn't going to hurt him in any way, but your right that's what I had how dare you growl at me. No I don't expect magic but more how to understand him and to prevent him from thinking he needs to resource guard.Ari_RR wrote:Yes... What is it in us humans that brings out this "how dare you dog growl at me?! I'll show you
Is it some kind of innate fear?
Anyway - I agree with what's been said. Not sure what you expect from the expert.... If you expect him to do some magic and teach Chief to never growl - that will do more damage than good. Growling in cases like this one, when the dog is in the unpleasant/uncomfortable situation, is communication indeed, and should be encouraged (by listening to the dog).
Good luck
I feel a little better yes and I have been working with him. Just hard for me to think love the growl. The growl frightens me. I have researched body language and before the bite there was no body language he growled then bit barely a second in-between it, but yes I have defiantly learned from this and want to learn more.Nettle wrote:To add to the great advice you have already had - and I hope you feel better now you know what was going on with him -
Love the growl. The growl is NOT an insult or an attempt to take over the world, be dominant, any other old-fashioned stuff. The growl is communication, and there are only so many ways a dog can communicate by sound. Before a dog ever growls, it tries to communicate by body language, but dog body language is fast and subtle, and we humans don't understand until we study it.
See the growl as a compliment - he thought you would listen to him. You will next time. This has taught you loads, and will, if you let it, make you an even better owner than you already are.
I grabbed his collar some times after the bite not right after. He wouldn't get up to go outside. Yes though I do know what you are saying defiantly want to understand him more. Nothing differnet for him but will do the vet check anyway just to make sure nothing if wrong for sure.JudyN wrote:Go make up to him now - I know what it's like to feel peed off with your dog, but by telling him off, grabbing his collar, etc, you are increasing the confrontation and giving him more reason not to trust you in the future. Once a dog has something, it is his, and his growl was no more of a reaction than a human would do if you walked up to them and picked up the chocolate bar in front of them that they were saving for later. It is no more than his way of saying 'Actually, that's mine, and I'd be grateful of you would let me hang on to it, please.' But you took it anyway... Although dogs differ in their ability to bite in situations like this, what Chief did was perfectly understandable. It was a wake-up call to what dogs can do, and a message that you need to handle him differently.
Once you understand Chief's behaviour, you can predict what might upset him, you will notice and respond to the growl, and so you can trust him again. You can manage the behaviour (by not trying to take food off him) so you don't need to feel afraid - biting in this situation doesn't mean he is likely to bite at any moment for any reason. And you shouldn't feel mad at him, because his behaviour was normal (that's not saying that all dogs would have reacted as he did, as there's a lot of variation - but it's still normal).
In my experience, you can have a great bond with your dog and he can still growl or bite you in certain circumstances. Chief may trust you and have a good bond with you, but you still took his food off him so he reacted accordingly.
Having said that, if you feel that he would normally have reacted differently, the vet check makes sense. Is there anything else that might have made him feel uncomfortable, e.g. a change in the weather?
ckranz wrote:Lets look at this from his perspective for a moment.
You gave him a treat...presumably a food item of something he likes.
He chooses not to consume the treat immediately preferring perhaps to save it for later
You reach back in and steal his food (treat).
He growls to show you his discomfort and perhaps frustration that you stole back what was rightfully his
You then stick a finger/hand in his face threatening a dog who you know to be somewhat fearful.
He responds defending himself with teeth perhaps afraid that your hand was out to hit him.
You grabbed his collar and drag him...upset, angry perhaps yelling.
Now the person he loves and trusts the most is ignoring him and paying him no mind.
Have you re-examined how you approached the issue and how you could have been better:
1. Personally if I give treats to my dogs I do not take them back...we have a no take back rule. But if an item drops on the floor, I have a leave it command.
2. If my dogs are holding something they are not supposed to have I have a drop it command
Either of these can be taught with a exchange option...give up what you have for something that I have that is even better.
When your dog growls he is expressing something. Learn what it s he is communicating. a "You don't growl at me attitude" does nothing to help you or your dog and can only lead to an escalation of aggression. Respect your dog's communication. Certainly right now you are a little unnerved around him. I suspect though you want to do better for him. Take your time and have patience. Understand how your dog see things and it can help you to resolve problems before they escalate.
Yes it was a new bone chew he's never had before. I pointed he growled then snapped 1 second later. I don't think it was much of a warning and me grabbing his collar was some time after he bit me. He wouldn't get up to go outside so I grabbed it. We will be working on the drop it game but yes I keep going over what happened in my head and probably will for awhile.
Yes I am very unnerved around him right now and I know he senses it because be is being slightly different than normal. Yes I defiantly want to do better and have us both learn from this.
Re: Chief bit me!!
The 'normal' (in inverted commas because every dog is different!) pattern for telling someone they feel uncomfortable is like this:
Turn head away
Move away
Freeze/stare
Lip lick
Lip curl
Bare teeth a little
Bare teeth a lot
Growl
Growl louder baring teeth a LOT
Air snap
Nip and release
Bite
Bite repeatedly
Bite and shake
Kill
However everything a dog experiences in life will affect which of these he will show, as will his breed genetics and individual personality.
For some dogs, we have intentionally bred them to bite when confronted = for example some cattle dogs and some sheep dogs will nip and bite, and this varies within breeds too - Border collies working on a very soft, compliant breed of sheep would not be selected for willingness to bite, but that same breed from a line used for moving very hard, willing to use aggression hill sheep, might well! (For those not familiar with tough hill sheep, I have seen one stare down a collie not willing to nip, charge it, and send it flying then purposely trample it and stamp on it! Poor dog should never have been brought out to work with those sheep!)
If a dog has ever experienced being told off for some of the elements of that chain of behaviours, they will learn NOT to bother using those - so if they have found that turning their head away, lip licking, moving away doesnt work, and freezing, lip curling and growling gets them yelled at, they quickly move to biting without these steps!
In the situation you describe where you are playing a game wher eyour dog brings you stuff and you reward him for it, and he slunk low and hesitated before dropping what he had - thats a GOOD indication he felt a little less happy about handing over his prize - and you did exactly the right thing by rewarding him when he did by running and playing a game. Had you attempted to take the item, even for a swap, he may not have been happy with that.
So the good news is that firstly, he offered you that body language, he said and you understood mostly 'I dunno about bringing THIS to you....' and you asked for a behaviour you've been working with him on, 'drop it' and he complied and you rewarded him appropriately and did NOT push the issue - great job!
If you ever get in a situation where you think 'this could be confrontational' or 'he could misinterpret my meaning here' remember this 'you can always change the subject'.
So lets replay the 'he has a treat he has not eaten and I want to avoid a scrap with other dogs over this treat'. Instead of trying to take it, which you now know he might well interpret as you stealing it, you could have stood up, run out of the room and called him to come get something or go do something with you. That would have been 'changing the subject' - if necessary you could have then put him somewhere safe, given him something else to do and gone back to remove the treat, completely safely.
Turn head away
Move away
Freeze/stare
Lip lick
Lip curl
Bare teeth a little
Bare teeth a lot
Growl
Growl louder baring teeth a LOT
Air snap
Nip and release
Bite
Bite repeatedly
Bite and shake
Kill
However everything a dog experiences in life will affect which of these he will show, as will his breed genetics and individual personality.
For some dogs, we have intentionally bred them to bite when confronted = for example some cattle dogs and some sheep dogs will nip and bite, and this varies within breeds too - Border collies working on a very soft, compliant breed of sheep would not be selected for willingness to bite, but that same breed from a line used for moving very hard, willing to use aggression hill sheep, might well! (For those not familiar with tough hill sheep, I have seen one stare down a collie not willing to nip, charge it, and send it flying then purposely trample it and stamp on it! Poor dog should never have been brought out to work with those sheep!)
If a dog has ever experienced being told off for some of the elements of that chain of behaviours, they will learn NOT to bother using those - so if they have found that turning their head away, lip licking, moving away doesnt work, and freezing, lip curling and growling gets them yelled at, they quickly move to biting without these steps!
In the situation you describe where you are playing a game wher eyour dog brings you stuff and you reward him for it, and he slunk low and hesitated before dropping what he had - thats a GOOD indication he felt a little less happy about handing over his prize - and you did exactly the right thing by rewarding him when he did by running and playing a game. Had you attempted to take the item, even for a swap, he may not have been happy with that.
So the good news is that firstly, he offered you that body language, he said and you understood mostly 'I dunno about bringing THIS to you....' and you asked for a behaviour you've been working with him on, 'drop it' and he complied and you rewarded him appropriately and did NOT push the issue - great job!
If you ever get in a situation where you think 'this could be confrontational' or 'he could misinterpret my meaning here' remember this 'you can always change the subject'.
So lets replay the 'he has a treat he has not eaten and I want to avoid a scrap with other dogs over this treat'. Instead of trying to take it, which you now know he might well interpret as you stealing it, you could have stood up, run out of the room and called him to come get something or go do something with you. That would have been 'changing the subject' - if necessary you could have then put him somewhere safe, given him something else to do and gone back to remove the treat, completely safely.
West Midlands based 1-2-1 Training & Behaviour Canine Consultant
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guineapigs05
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:48 pm
Re: Chief bit me!!
Well met with a trainer yesterday at my local 150 acre dog park today with Chief. She said she was very surprised on his demeanor and his confidence. She said based on what I told her happened and his past that he is a great dog and meets other dogs very well.
She said she believe Chief is just trying to test who is the boss and she said what I have been doing lately is what she would suggest. She also said she thinks I should walk him more. Even though he gets tons of exercise she thinks him being on the leash more will help bond and have him respect me more
For the toys she said the game I am doing is good and said same as other here said. Is to happily get the dog away from the toy them grab it.
She said to make sure to apply NILF which I was already told here. Make him work for everything. She also said I could tie him to me with the leash to have him follow me everywhere. Even though he follows me on his own she said he's doing that by his choice tieing him to me its because i'm telling him to. Idk about this though. She was very nice I think I will still meet with the person I posted about a few pages ago and she what she has to say to.
Any thoughts on what this trainer told me?
She said she believe Chief is just trying to test who is the boss and she said what I have been doing lately is what she would suggest. She also said she thinks I should walk him more. Even though he gets tons of exercise she thinks him being on the leash more will help bond and have him respect me more
For the toys she said the game I am doing is good and said same as other here said. Is to happily get the dog away from the toy them grab it.
She said to make sure to apply NILF which I was already told here. Make him work for everything. She also said I could tie him to me with the leash to have him follow me everywhere. Even though he follows me on his own she said he's doing that by his choice tieing him to me its because i'm telling him to. Idk about this though. She was very nice I think I will still meet with the person I posted about a few pages ago and she what she has to say to.
Any thoughts on what this trainer told me?
Re: Chief bit me!!
You won't be told to apply NILIF here (except by the odd troll) - it's abusive. There is no harm in a dog having 'manners' but that is something different.
Also your dog is not testing who is the boss - what was going on in his mind is what you have already been told here. He was upset and confused, rather scared, and reacted in the only way he knew how, thinking he had to protect himself because you were attacking him.
Tying the dog to you will not gain anything. What a strange idea.
Don't 'grab' anything. Remove the dog from the toy, then when the dog is happily away from the toy and in such a position that he can't lunge back to protect it (this means ideally in another room) you go back and remove the toy. Grabbing action can cause a dog to dive at whatever is being grabbed. Everything we do with dogs while under training should be gentle and fluid.
Also your dog is not testing who is the boss - what was going on in his mind is what you have already been told here.
He was upset and confused, rather scared, and reacted in the only way he knew how, thinking he had to protect himself because you were attacking him.Tying the dog to you will not gain anything. What a strange idea.
Don't 'grab' anything. Remove the dog from the toy, then when the dog is happily away from the toy and in such a position that he can't lunge back to protect it (this means ideally in another room) you go back and remove the toy. Grabbing action can cause a dog to dive at whatever is being grabbed. Everything we do with dogs while under training should be gentle and fluid.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog
SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
SET YOURSELF UP FOR SUCCESS
Re: Chief bit me!!
That trainer seems to have some rather outdated (and not supported by science) ideas. .........she also seems to subscribe to the, 'dog thinks he's boss/testing you" theory which will not serve you well, imp.
Re: Chief bit me!!
I agree with Nettle. This incident was nothing to do with 'who is boss', testing boundaries, respect for you, or anything else of that sort. It isn't an indication of a lack of bond between you, either. It may be linked to some underlying general stress (if you take my chocolate off me when I'm relaxed, I might just ask you to give it back, if I've had a bad day I will snark at you) but NILIF, tying him to you, and unnecessary extra walks are more likely to increase stress levels.
One thing I noted - you say his exercise is 2 hours 'hard running'. Now, that will put physical and mental stress on most dogs, I would think. If you don't already, it would be worth making sure there's plenty of mooching/sniffing time, just wandering along together, having a 'chat'... Some time on lead while you're doing this is good, but you should still try to make this time enjoyable - I find it very useful that my dog doesn't differentiate too much between onlead and offlead time, which means that he's happy to come to me to go on lead, and isn't frustrated if he has to stay on lead most of the time. But being made to be on lead for lengths of time when it means that the fun stops won't help.
One thing I noted - you say his exercise is 2 hours 'hard running'. Now, that will put physical and mental stress on most dogs, I would think. If you don't already, it would be worth making sure there's plenty of mooching/sniffing time, just wandering along together, having a 'chat'... Some time on lead while you're doing this is good, but you should still try to make this time enjoyable - I find it very useful that my dog doesn't differentiate too much between onlead and offlead time, which means that he's happy to come to me to go on lead, and isn't frustrated if he has to stay on lead most of the time. But being made to be on lead for lengths of time when it means that the fun stops won't help.
Jasper, lurcher, born December 2009
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guineapigs05
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:48 pm
Re: Chief bit me!!
Yes I thought the tying to me was weird. I have decided to find someone different. Someone who is more qualified for this issue. Well she ment that to get him away happily in another room or something away from the object and then get the toy or whateverNettle wrote:You won't be told to apply NILIF here (except by the odd troll) - it's abusive. There is no harm in a dog having 'manners' but that is something different.
Also your dog is not testing who is the boss - what was going on in his mind is what you have already been told here.
Tying the dog to you will not gain anything. What a strange idea.
Don't 'grab' anything. Remove the dog from the toy, then when the dog is happily away from the toy and in such a position that he can't lunge back to protect it (this means ideally in another room) you go back and remove the toy. Grabbing action can cause a dog to dive at whatever is being grabbed. Everything we do with dogs while under training should be gentle and fluid.
I do not see how NILF is abusive though??
I have decided to try and find a different trainergwd wrote:That trainer seems to have some rather outdated (and not supported by science) ideas. .........she also seems to subscribe to the, 'dog thinks he's boss/testing you" theory which will not serve you well, imp.
I don't see whats wrong with nilf, but yes tying him to be seemed weird. The hard running is on his own and not 2 hours straight. Running around the backyard playing with our other dog. He also goes to the dog park 150 acres of running and plenty of time to sniff. We usually stay there an hour. He loves walks and brings his leash to me all the time he knows it means he gets to go outside which is his favorite thingJudyN wrote:I agree with Nettle. This incident was nothing to do with 'who is boss', testing boundaries, respect for you, or anything else of that sort. It isn't an indication of a lack of bond between you, either. It may be linked to some underlying general stress (if you take my chocolate off me when I'm relaxed, I might just ask you to give it back, if I've had a bad day I will snark at you) but NILIF, tying him to you, and unnecessary extra walks are more likely to increase stress levels.
One thing I noted - you say his exercise is 2 hours 'hard running'. Now, that will put physical and mental stress on most dogs, I would think. If you don't already, it would be worth making sure there's plenty of mooching/sniffing time, just wandering along together, having a 'chat'... Some time on lead while you're doing this is good, but you should still try to make this time enjoyable - I find it very useful that my dog doesn't differentiate too much between onlead and offlead time, which means that he's happy to come to me to go on lead, and isn't frustrated if he has to stay on lead most of the time. But being made to be on lead for lengths of time when it means that the fun stops won't help.
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guineapigs05
- Posts: 67
- Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:48 pm
Re: Chief bit me!!
An interesting read, but personally I think its ridiculous to say that nilf is abusive. Someone somewhere can try can find something negative towards everything out there. Whether its food we eat, drink, even talking on cell phones or typing on them, types of shoes, dog foods, harnesses. There can be something good twisted in some way to be negative.
But I defiantly will learn more from this and we will find the right trainer for us and I really love reading the advice I have been getting.