Golden-Chow mix

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Simba
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Golden-Chow mix

Post by Simba »

We just returned from our local Vet who told us Simba is definitely a Golden-Chow mix and because he growled when they manhandled him (she is a Cesar-Milan type person) to cut his nails (he does not like people leaning on him to get him to lie down and they took him in another room to clip his nails and draw blood for a heartworm test) she said he will be aggressive and eventually we will not be able to take him to the dog park unless we neuter him. That he is only one years old and by two he will be difficult to control. Those were her words.

We usually do not allow them to take the dog to another room to do anything without us present; however, they took him before I knew what was happening since I was in another room initially taking care of something with a tech.

I have seen women with breast cancer in their family have a breast removed for "prevention" and I think it is ridiculous. So, too, do I feel neutering an animal is. There is little chance of him getting loose to roam the neighborhood looking for females in heat. I am willing to take that chance. If animals were meant to not have testicles they would not have them to begin with. They serve a number of functions other than pro-creation. We will not neuter him for our convenience. Anyway, I am off point.

Does anyone have a Golden-Chow mix and can talk to the aggression potential that this Vet alluded to? He is mainly Golden, if that makes a difference. Frankly, I have seen plenty of neutered dogs of all types be aggressive in the dog park. Simba seems so far to be the sweetest animal who gets along with other animals beautifully. We assume that as we continue to train him he will continue to be a good dog; however, we have zero experience with this sort of mixed breed. Thank you.

We will switch Vets in any case now that we know her "Cesar inclinations" (we did not know before).
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Nettle
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Re: Golden-Chow mix

Post by Nettle »

First off, even a DNA test will not confirm the breeds in your dog, so the vet is only guessing.

Second of all, it is perfectly reasonable for a dog to object to being manhandled and hurt. HE DID NOT BITE. I bet your vet woulod kick up a storm if restrained by a brace of burly gorillas while a polar bear chewed off her nails.

There is no GOOD reason to castrate a dog except to prevent unwanted litters, and anyone who does not want their dog to breed can easily prevent that. Entire dogs are not monsters.


Any breed or cross would appear "aggressive" if frightened or hurt. Most of the aggressive neutered dogs you see are antsy because they are scared.


I think you should change your vet.

Meanwhile, to get this in proportion, first of all a cyber )))))))))HUG((((((((((((( because you must be very upset, and I recommend you pour a glass of something nice and then read through some of our threads on aggression, and also a link Mattie posted about how we should welcome the growl. I think it is in Chat but otherwise will be in Training.
A dog is never bad or naughty - it is simply being a dog

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Simba
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Location: Georgia

Re: Golden-Chow mix

Post by Simba »

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I needed to hear someone else's voice on this. My husband listened to the Vet and he is thinking the Vet is right. I now have more force to strengthen out his thinking. I will check out the threads on this. It is my fault that he was handled in this way and it won't happen again. Simba is very intelligent and if he does not want to do something I have to use an intelligent approach to encourage him to do something that I feel is important. For instance, if he does not want to go into the car for some reason my husband will pull on his leash. I do not. I encourage him which does take a few minutes more; however, in this way Simba chooses to do the right thing rather than me pull him. He is a treat junky so I can usually be successful.

Thanks again. A Vet who is a VS type weighed in on Simba's "ball in the belly" situation a while back sounds perfect. I will pull up my earlier emails and find him.
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jacksdad
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Re: Golden-Chow mix

Post by jacksdad »

simba, if it helps with your husband, my dog is 3 years old and neutered I got him in October 2009 and I have had to work very hard the last 6 months to be able to counter condition him so that we can pass dogs on walks. he isn't "cured", but getting better.

It's because of my dog and his dog /dog on leash pseudo aggression that I have been very interested in what Nettles has to say on the topic. If neutering did all it promises (besides birth control) then my dog should be the calmest dog on the block, but he isn't.
Leigha
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Re: Golden-Chow mix

Post by Leigha »

I was looking for the "Like" button, then realized I wasn't on Facebook! My dog's been reactive since he was a puppy (whether he's on leash or not). I'm not really sure why or what we did wrong to "make" him that way, but he is. There's a post from me a few months ago because I got so excited that Bruiser didn't flip out at two people we happened to see on our walk. He used to react to everything--halloween decorations, people, dogs, EVERYTHING. I've had Bruiser since he was a very little puppy and we've been working on some form of issue since then. Honestly, I'm 100% sure he's like this because of the dominance theory stuff we did to him when he was little. We tried the alpha rolls and holding him down when he flipped out, it did nothing but make me cry, so eventually we found this forum and have been able to turn stuff around. I truly believe we damaged my dog by doing that stuff to him.
Simba
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Re: Golden-Chow mix

Post by Simba »

Thank you for your thoughts. When we literally just rescued Simba we had been watching Cesar's show from time to time and quite entertained by it. We liked the way he used energy to effect things so we read some of his books and tried the techniques with our new puppy. Little did we know this was soooooooooo wrong. We did not have a "red zone dog" we had an eight week old puppy who needed rescuing from a bad situation along with our soft love and guidance.

He did not like "the claw like a mother thing" at all and resisted vigorously. We thought we were doing the technique incorrectly. Well, I "accidently" ran into VS a few days after we rescued him at one of her booksignings and thank goodness she set me straight on all of this dominance theory stuff. We stopped what we were doing immediately and switched gears. We are loving people and never liked the heavy handedness and dominance idea we just did not know another way. Our past dogs, while not trained properly, were always loving family members who we communicated with as our family members. Yes, we spoiled them in many ways. We did not care. We were all in the family together. VS style feels so much more right to us. It does take longer to train the dog it seems; nonetheless, our dog is not frightened of us and we allow his feelings to be acknowledged and respected.

Simba and us are so lucky for that "chance" meeting over a year ago. It literally, saved all of our lives. Simba is a very conscious dog and he needed to be treated with the acknowledgment of that. Do we still goof with his traininng? Yes, we do; nonethless, we feel confident that over time we will get the hang of it and he will respond accordingly. We are sooooooooooo grateful to have found a way to train Simba that reflects our personal style.
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HunniBunni
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Re: Golden-Chow mix

Post by HunniBunni »

I know this has nothing to do with the neuter issues but I wanted to say something about the breed cross.

My fondest memories of when I was a young child was that of our own Golden Chow Chow mix: Teddy. He was the greatest dog. Very sweet natured, and never aggressive (even when shoving mudpies into his open mouth!). I am not sure how Chow Chows get such a bad rep. The ones I have known are incredibly sweet, in love with children and very gentle.

I hope Simba brings you big smiles and great memories to cherish as my own Teddy did for me.
emmabeth
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Re: Golden-Chow mix

Post by emmabeth »

I have read more times than I can count that Chows can have an aggressive nature.

What I think is really the case is - Chows are not very easy to read due to the fluffy coat, the pricked ears the naturally high tail carriage - for other dogs they have a very upright stance and poorly defined facial outlines/expressions ..

What this all adds up to is, a dog who gets misunderstood and learns to kick butt first, ask questions later, and thus earns a reputation whereby people try to train them by dominating them and using fear, which will create a dog who is likely to aggress without much in teh way of warning (as what little he can show has been punished out of him).

You will find the same said of other similar breeds, for example Akitas, various mastiffs too - when in fact these dogs are very sensitive and easily pushed into using aggression as a first option.

Stick to your guns, train and handle the dog you have, not the dog the vet thinks you might have in a few y ears time. If he is happy and friendly and well mannered now theres no reason he wont be next year either.
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maximoo
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Re: Golden-Chow mix

Post by maximoo »

Max is part chow but looks mainly like a mini German Shepard so his facial features body language are not hindered by thick fur tho I imagine it could be. Max has two personalities: 1) He gets crazed (probably from being bored at times) wants to nip people, steal shoes, and zoom crazily around the house/yard. He is also very alert to the littlest sounds & will bark to warn. He is reactive to any animal that is not a dog. But it doesn't bother me much. He doesn't want to eat them just smell them /play with them (2) He is so sweet he actually steals love from you. You think you are giving it freely NO way he is a LOVE THIEF.

Overall he is fairly smart. He loves people, & other dogs. If he doesn't want to be bothered with a certain dog he will walk away/come to me. He is getting better at his tricks & loves attention. But don't bother him if he is sleeping he will give a low growl occassionally.

Just train your dog to the best of your ability make sure he is socialized & don't worry about sterotypes. We all know how accurate sterotypes are :P

Even if was proven scientically that Chows are aggressive there are exceptions to every rule. Plus you would have to look at how those dogs were raised, trained & socialized.

We both have beautiful dogs. Enjoy him for who he is 8)
Simba
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Re: Golden-Chow mix

Post by Simba »

Yeah, I am over it. I discounted what the Vet said about Simba because our experience is the one that counts. He simply needs more training, is all. He is a delight and has such a sweet personality Golden-Chow or not. Thanks for your thoughts.
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ilovedogz
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Re: Golden-Chow mix

Post by ilovedogz »

I have a golden chow mix. Buddy looks like a golden retriever, but his ears are shorter and his tongue is purple/pink. He's a very sweet dog who hasn't growled or bit anyone at all. Your dog must be more chow than golden, because chows are known to be a little more on the aggressive side.
Simba
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Re: Golden-Chow mix

Post by Simba »

Simba is mostly golden. He merely growled at the Vet as the tech's manhandled him and forced him to lie down to trim his nails. He does not like when you force him to do something. We know how to "encourage" him to do what we would like since he is a treat junky! In the dog park he is the most gentle and playful dog. He shows not signs of aggression at all. Other dogs may mount him and all he does is turn his head and look (no growl or other sound) at them with the strong energy "Get off of me" and they do! He is a bright dog who needs more training since he pulls like a train!!!
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ilovedogz
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Re: Golden-Chow mix

Post by ilovedogz »

haha Buddy pulls like a train too :? its like im talking to a friend and he pulls me away and they just stare at me :shock: but yeah well maybe it's not THAT bad but it's just pretty bad.
Simba
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Re: Golden-Chow mix

Post by Simba »

It is not funny at all. Simba pulled my husband two weeks ago and my husband tore ligaments in his ankle because of it. I am out of commission myself for a little while longer and when I am fully recovered this guy IS going to walk with me on the leash without pulling and without a gentle-leader, prong collar, choke collar, shock collar, Sborn or other device. He will learn to be mindful of me, pay attention and walk nicely. I firmly believe I simply need to offer him consistent and regular training and he will be fine. If not, you will hear from me again for sure!!!!
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ilovedogz
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Re: Golden-Chow mix

Post by ilovedogz »

I am working on training on him. I'm leaving on Sunday for a one month vacation, but I will tell our friend to help us continue his training. He's a 27lbs dog, so when he pulls me he can't do much harm to me.
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