GSD thoughts?

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Shalista
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GSD thoughts?

Post by Shalista » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:46 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03 ... um=twitter

What do you guys think? I remember us talking about this when it happened.
Baxter (AKA Bax, Chuckles, Chuckster) Rat Terrier, born 01/16/13

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Erica
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Re: GSD thoughts?

Post by Erica » Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:36 pm

More and more I'm starting to think that killing the three point stack and revising the standards will be the only way to judge GSDs in dog shows in a way that actively punishes weak hindquarters. Some of the smaller show venues seem to have success with getting their judges to pick dogs with good hips, but the big guys? :/

I don't know. It's a huge mess and I hope they can figure it out.
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JudyN
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Re: GSD thoughts?

Post by JudyN » Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:01 am

It's crazy when the standards have to specify 'can stand freely and unsupported', along with (for other breeds) 'can breathe properly'. These are animals, not works of art that can be judged with completely subjective standards, but some dogs are beginning to resemble Picassos :x

Crufts is one of my guilty pleasures - I'll be watching the GSDs with interest.
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Nettle
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Re: GSD thoughts?

Post by Nettle » Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:33 am

The KC deserves a BIIIG pat on the back and a biscuit for standing up to corrupt/inadequate judging and Old Boy Networking between judges and breeders. There is talk of including diagrams in all breed standards so people can see what the dog should look like. Some years ago I pointed out that a mega prizewinning GSD when trotting (which the breeders like to call 'gaiting' :roll: ) stepped inside the foreleg with one hindleg and outside it with the other - which shows extreme unsoundness. Next thing it appeared in the breed standard as acceptable! :evil:

I cannot understand why the breeders and judges cannot see what is in front of them. Is it genuine misunderstanding or are they just thinking if they strut and huff sufficiently those with eyes to see will shut up and go away?

I was at a Show a couple of years ago when a very bent-backed young GSD shuffled past with such weak hindlegs that they crossed at every step and the whole animal wobbled. I said something to a friend, and another spectator whirled round and told me in no uncertain terms that it was NORMAL for a dog that age to be 'loose' in the hindquarters. I pointed to a ring full of lurcher pups - not a loose hindquarter in any of them. Off went the other person nearly tripping over her curled top lip, telling me I know nothing about dogs (I judged at championship level for over 30 years, bred many champions and used to work as a physio).

But, you know, I think there is hope for the GSD now. And I also think they desperately need to outcross to something sound. I'm not sure there is enough decent DNA left in the GSD to breed for soundness and good temperament any more.
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JudyN
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Re: GSD thoughts?

Post by JudyN » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:41 am

I can't even see how the general public can't see when a dog is clearly unsound. I met a GSD pup whose back legs were all over the place and I thought he'd injured himself, but the owner told me he was normal - his muscles just hadn't grown into his joints or something. Common sense told me it was just plain wrong :?

I like the idea that there should be diagrams, a visual template that dogs can be compared against. Terms like 'not overly sloped' or 'the [whatever] should not be exaggerated' are subjective to the point of being meaningless.
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Shalista
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Re: GSD thoughts?

Post by Shalista » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:21 am

Nettle wrote:
Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:33 am
And I also think they desperately need to outcross to something sound. I'm not sure there is enough decent DNA left in the GSD to breed for soundness and good temperament any more.
Not to expose myself as a total noob but aren't there 2 lines of GSD? working and show? Couldn't they just breed some of the working ones with the wobbly show ones?
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JudyN
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Re: GSD thoughts?

Post by JudyN » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:40 am

I've also met a few level-backed shaggy ones. I've no idea if these have been bred as companion dogs, whether they are considered pedigrees or if they could ever be shown, but they look a lot fitter to me.

Nettle's the expert (I'm a total noob too compared with her), but I imagine crossing a show GSD with a working GSD could result in a very iffy temperament. But with careful selection, anything's possible.
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Nettle
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Re: GSD thoughts?

Post by Nettle » Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:43 am

Even the working ones have gone too far IMO. They are not as extreme as the show lines, but they aren't good. Our police stopped using them years ago, because it just didn't make sense to put all that time into a dog that was going to be a cripple by four years old (if not sooner). And there is the temperament issue too. Working lines are very full-on, and the average pet owner couldn't cope.

Posted the same time as JudyN!
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