What breed for me?

[Erica]

Now, this may just be a flight of fancy, but my life is starting to head into a place where I would have the time and place for a new dog. Marble will be moving out, leaving our house with only one dog for the first time in nearly a decade. My work schedule will become more flexible and less demanding. (At least, I hope so - but if anyone can find MORE work to do after they've retired, it's this woman.) I do still live with my parents (and will for a while yet - they don't want an empty house too soon), who would be able to help me out if I am going to be gone for several hours.

What I'm looking for in a dog:
-Medium to large size - preferably between 30-80 pounds/15-35 kg
-Active - good running buddy once grown (5-10k), possibly agility - but also able to withstand a day or two inside with potty breaks - in case of horrible weather (hurricanes, heat waves, ice storms)
-Trainable - I know all dogs are trainable, but some are more trainable than others. I'd prefer a dog who would enjoy training and is motivated by food or tug.
-Dog, pet, and people friendly - must live with another dog and a cat, would like to take dog running with me out on public trails
-Grooming is less of a concern, but I'd prefer to not have to groom every day for extended periods of time. A few hours of weekly grooming that I could do myself would be okay, and brushing out after a walk/activity is okay too. Visiting a groomer is an option, but I'd prefer to learn to do it myself.
-Heat and cold tolerant - We get temperatures ranging from just below freezing to "oh god why" (90F/32C is a normal summer day, and HUMID - 100F/38C is not unheard). When it's hot, we keep inside and do our walks early morning/late evening/night.
-Child-friendly - Our house often plays host to young children for short periods of time. However, it would be an option to put the dog in a crate/a back room if they did not like kids. Kid-friendly is definitely preferable though, as sometimes the children just wander up to the house without notice.
-Apartment friendly (low priority, but a concern) - I may move into an apartment at some point during the dog's life, so having a breed that isn't on the standard banned list (or a dog that might look like a pibble but actually is a boxer/lab mix!) is preferable.
-A dog who likes being close to me - Opal has a personal bubble and isn't overly fond of getting too close to people. I'm fine with that, but I would like a dog who likes to be close, sitting on the couch or sleeping on the bed, etc.

What I want to avoid:
-High pitched and/or excessive and loud barking - personal peeve; I have little patience for barking.
-Never calming down -I would like a dog who can settle down for a few hours after being mentally/physically exercised.
-Separation anxiety - though this does come down a lot to training and the individual dog
-True aggression towards other dogs/people - again, training can help, but I would like to take the dog out in public with me. I'm not talking downtown city, but a trail where we might see a few people every now and then.
-Docked tail
-A lot of daily grooming - I'd prefer something that can deal with 10 minutes or so of maintenance brushing daily, with a full-on grooming session about once a week. Less than that is okay too, but that's my upper limit.

Dogs I'm considering intently are Poodles (standard, probably), Malinois, and pibbles. Breeds that I'm vaguely thinking about are Catahoulas, Rhodesian Ridgebacks, and Dobermans.

Those fun breed selector quizzes returned results of Malinois, Poodle, Australian Cattle Dog, Border Collie, German Shorthaired Pointer, Airedales, Dobes, Rotties, and some retrievers/setters/shepherds that aren't appealing to me. Malis top the list on most of them.

Now, onto my concerns/reservations about each of the breeds:

Malinois - I feel I can keep up, but could my parents handle pup while I was working? It is usually 11-1, and then 2-6 that I'm gone, so conceivably, once old enough, doggy could be crated or otherwise contained if they don't want to deal with it. My schedule gives me a good amount of time to play/train/walk in the morning before I have to leave. I'd definitely want to get to know the breed in person better before choosing it. They are relatively rare, so it might be a good wait before I'd get a pup. Rescue is an option too, but again, they're rare so it could be difficult to find one.

Poodles - The grooming might be difficult. I like to do things myself, and learning how would be fun - but probably best if I learn from someone who knows what they're doing. A minor concern, but worth keeping in mind.

Pit bull types - Mainly, for these ones, it would be breed discrimination that concerns me. I would probably try to have the dog listed as a crossbreed of other types, eg lab mix or whatever is believable (our neighbor's "shepherd mix" has no shepherd but I'd be willing to bet a lot of something pit bull-y - ironic, since she's named "Denver").There's not much push for any kind of BSL where I am, and lots of push against it, so that shouldn't be an issue. Insurance, renting, etc would still be a concern. I would, if it was conceivable with the dog in question, try for a CGC or CLASS certificate - both are just general "this dog has good manners" certificates, but I've heard they're useful for getting into apartments. I would need a cat- and dog-friendly dog, but with this type, there are no guarantees one way or another what their temperament is.

Poodles and Malis are probably the only two I'd seek out a breeder for (and even then it'd probably be after checking rescues); otherwise, I think I'll just watch different channels for dogs in need of a home until I find one that would fit me and my life.



Anything I'm not thinking of, or ideas and suggestions, are all welcome!

[gwd]

While I think they're really cool dogs, I would not recommend a mal. I've known a number of them and they make every border collie I've known look like they're on Valium. I'm appreciative of high drive dogs with good work ethic, but the mals crank it up to levels I'd never be able to live with (and I have springers!) the mals I've known are also not particularly good with other dogs....... that single mindedness/intensity doesn't usually mesh with other dogs. Now if you're attracted to that type, perhaps a terv or a Belgian sheepdog might be a good choice. I've known some lovely Belgian sheepdogs!

I've also known some really lovely standard poodles............. they're smart and have a jolly outlook on life.

[Ari_RR]

Re: RR... Of course dogs vary and good or not so good training is a factor, but my particular RR fails almost every check on your list. He is over 100 lbs, not very friendly with other people and dogs, not food motivated when it's comes to training, in general stubborn and a horrible student, heat and cold intolerant, doesn't willingly go out when there is even a small chance of precipitation, child friendly if a way that scares parents out of their boots, and needs his bubble of private space...

Pretty good with the cat, though... Wasn't at the beginning, but it only took 2 years for them to figure out how to coexist during the 1st year the cat confined herself to the master bedroom.

[Nettle]

Not a Mal. You could cope, but the rest of the world couldn't. Very high drive with a hair-trigger response to anything they perceive as challenge, and inborn potential for man and dog aggression. Doesn't mean that potential would be reached but the buttons are installed and the perspex guard is thin.

Know what? I'd say a goldendoodle. Much less bouncy than labradoodles (lady here trains goldendoodles for therapy and says they are way better). You would still have to tend the coat, but not as thoroughly and frequently as a poodle coat. Standard poo would be my next recommendation - great dogs. but IF you can get a genuine FIRST CROSS GD from a good breeder - they are good.

Oh, and they look cute because they are fluffy, so don't frighten landlords

[Erica]

GWD - Thank you for the honesty. It would be a good idea to start lower on the intensity scale. An internet friend of mine has a lovely Tervuren; I may look into those! The main difference between Groenendaels/Belgian Sheepdogs and Tervurens is color, correct?

I am thinking poodles might be more fitting for now - after having a bit of a think and comparing the relative size of the "concerns" paragraphs.

Ari - Those are reasons why RRs are only a vague interest - I admire the breed, but I don't think they're a strong fit for what I want in a dog. (Now, RR/Lab cross - that can be a great dog, if they turn out like the two I knew. If anyone hears about a litter of those anywhere in America I'd be very tempted by them. ;P )

Nettle - I'm actually dogsitting a first gen goldendoodle for a good three weeks soon, which should give me insight into how I get on with them! I enjoy grooming as long as the dog does, so it's just acquiring the knowledge and skill for it which could be tricky. Along with finding a good breeder for either, of course. Rescue poodles probably aren't too difficult to find.

Fluffy does make things less intimidating, doesn't it? Even Ovcharkas/Caucasian Shepherds (definitely NOT on my list) look cute until they put their business face on.

[gwd]

Oh, I forgot to mention. With poodles, stick to black, white, silver or blue. Stay away from chocolate, apricot and red. The latter are the 'weird/ditsy' colors of poodle-dom.

The only concern I have with nettles suggestion of goldendoodle (obviously other than I, as a rule, oppose designer breeds) is that most folks that intentional cross breed, don't do genetic testing ..........in the case of golden and poodles, you'd want hips, elbows, eyes, and heart all certified clear in both sire and dam.

[Erica]

Yep, if a breeder of any sort is in the plan, they'll be carefully scrutinised - healthy, great temperament parents and related dogs, health testing to prove the health, a reasonable contract on both ends, not breeding for profit, feeds quality food, treats the dogs well and keeps them in good condition, etc etc...and also has as many questions about me and my situation as I have about them and theirs. Crossbreeders would get double the scrutiny, since as you mention, a lot of the times it's not an experienced, knowledgeable, caring person doing the breeding.

I remember hearing about the colors thing before! On aesthetics alone, I'd prefer white, silver, or blue. But aside from the black base/white vs red base, color is low on the list of priorities.

[Erica]

Uhoh.

I found a raw feeding Standard Poodle breeder who advocates for minimal vaccinations and titer testing and there's a litter of puppies available in September who, from the wording, they're still taking applications for.

I'd have to do a bit more digging and check socialization, health testing, grooming, etc, but...this is looking very nice.

[Nettle]

Uhoh.

I found a raw feeding Standard Poodle breeder who advocates for minimal vaccinations and titer testing and there's a litter of puppies available in September who, from the wording, they're still taking applications for.

I'd have to do a bit more digging and check socialization, health testing, grooming, etc, but...this is looking very nice.

Kharma. Resistance is futile.

[JudyN]

Ah, now I wouldn't be interested in a small poodle, but I could give house room to a standard poodle (not with Jasper though, I reckon he would hate a standard poodle!). But what we need to know now is the colour of the parents. Then we can all start googling pictures of poodle pups and getting broody on your behalf

[Erica]

Slight bump in that breeder's road, is that the road is about twice as long as I'd thought...I googled Virginia, but they are New Jersey. Still, I'd drive 500 miles (and I would drive 500 more...) to get a superb quality puppy...though I may look a little more at ones a bit closer.

The raw/titer breeder has a litter of silver pups.

I recruited my little sister to help me in the convincing of the parents. Mom was against it until sister brought up "poodle," then it switched and Dad said "no poodles" and Mom said "Ooh, cute!" But we pulled up pictures of German and Continental cut poodles and Dad was mollified. I asked later for clarification that I could begin looking (shhhh) and they said, definitively, yes. (Mom noted that "Out of all five kids, you're the one who I believe will fully take responsibility and care of a dog." )

[ckranz]

Now, this may just be a flight of fancy, but my life is starting to head into a place where I would have the time and place for a new dog. Marble will be moving out, leaving our house with only one dog for the first time in nearly a decade. My work schedule will become more flexible and less demanding. (At least, I hope so - but if anyone can find MORE work to do after they've retired, it's this woman.) I do still live with my parents (and will for a while yet - they don't want an empty house too soon), who would be able to help me out if I am going to be gone for several hours.

What I'm looking for in a dog:
-Medium to large size - preferably between 30-80 pounds/15-35 kg
-Active - good running buddy once grown (5-10k), possibly agility - but also able to withstand a day or two inside with potty breaks - in case of horrible weather (hurricanes, heat waves, ice storms)
-Trainable - I know all dogs are trainable, but some are more trainable than others. I'd prefer a dog who would enjoy training and is motivated by food or tug.
-Dog, pet, and people friendly - must live with another dog and a cat, would like to take dog running with me out on public trails
-Grooming is less of a concern, but I'd prefer to not have to groom every day for extended periods of time. A few hours of weekly grooming that I could do myself would be okay, and brushing out after a walk/activity is okay too. Visiting a groomer is an option, but I'd prefer to learn to do it myself.
-Heat and cold tolerant - We get temperatures ranging from just below freezing to "oh god why" (90F/32C is a normal summer day, and HUMID - 100F/38C is not unheard). When it's hot, we keep inside and do our walks early morning/late evening/night.
-Child-friendly - Our house often plays host to young children for short periods of time. However, it would be an option to put the dog in a crate/a back room if they did not like kids. Kid-friendly is definitely preferable though, as sometimes the children just wander up to the house without notice.
-Apartment friendly (low priority, but a concern) - I may move into an apartment at some point during the dog's life, so having a breed that isn't on the standard banned list (or a dog that might look like a pibble but actually is a boxer/lab mix!) is preferable.
-A dog who likes being close to me - Opal has a personal bubble and isn't overly fond of getting too close to people. I'm fine with that, but I would like a dog who likes to be close, sitting on the couch or sleeping on the bed, etc.

What I want to avoid:
-High pitched and/or excessive and loud barking - personal peeve; I have little patience for barking.
-Never calming down -I would like a dog who can settle down for a few hours after being mentally/physically exercised.
-Separation anxiety - though this does come down a lot to training and the individual dog
-True aggression towards other dogs/people - again, training can help, but I would like to take the dog out in public with me. I'm not talking downtown city, but a trail where we might see a few people every now and then.
-Docked tail
-A lot of daily grooming - I'd prefer something that can deal with 10 minutes or so of maintenance brushing daily, with a full-on grooming session about once a week. Less than that is okay too, but that's my upper limit.

Dogs I'm considering intently are Poodles (standard, probably), Malinois, and pibbles. Breeds that I'm vaguely thinking about are Catahoulas, Rhodesian Ridgebacks, and Dobermans.


Poodles and Malis are probably the only two I'd seek out a breeder for (and even then it'd probably be after checking rescues); otherwise, I think I'll just watch different channels for dogs in need of a home until I find one that would fit me and my life.



Anything I'm not thinking of, or ideas and suggestions, are all welcome!

Based on your description above...A Malinois or any Belgian would not be a good fit for you. You activity is far to inactive for any of the Belgians. While I have certainly met many in flyball who are "ill-tempered" I have also met several who are gentle as lambs and very sweet. In any every malinois I know is worked daily with agility, flyball, tracking, shuthund, ringsport, dockdiving etc... This activity is much more than just a running buddy.

Poodles will be a lot of work with grooming, but if you can learn to do it yourself that will help. Standard sizes can be athletic but if you are looking for performance you may want a minature poodle. They can be very quick and very active. Most of the poodles I have met have been very friendly and certainly very charming. After seeing a few run agility, I gained a lot of respect for their abilities.

Ridgebacks....You really need to find a good breeder for both a good temperament and activity. Ridgebacks do like to run and if you choose one, please look into lure coursing. Its an activity all sighthounds tend to enjoy. As mentioned that can be a handful when it comes to training. The true secret to train any dog though is finding out what motivates them and use that to learn new things...food, tug, toys, buggy whip with a rabbit tail etc...

Staffordshire Terrier. This is the smaller version of the "Pit Bull". They are very trainable, very friendly and very sweet. When excited they make a variety of noise which can sound like pigs squealing to a screaming chimpanzee. I swear the last lure coursing event one was screaming "I wanna run"

Doberman also a good choice but be careful with breeders. Tail docking is cone very early. It perhaps easier to get one with uncropped ears than an undocked tail, but be patient and you might be able to get one. Activity level is good and certianly they are trainable. They can be a bit aloof.

It looks like you are looking at poodles so that should be a good fit for you. I would also look into activities like flyball, and agility...its a lot of fun and a great way to bond with your dog.

[mum24dog]

Are poodles not still routinely docked in the US?

[mum24dog]

Oh, I forgot to mention. With poodles, stick to black, white, silver or blue. Stay away from chocolate, apricot and red. The latter are the 'weird/ditsy' colors of poodle-dom.

The only concern I have with nettles suggestion of goldendoodle (obviously other than I, as a rule, oppose designer breeds) is that most folks that intentional cross breed, don't do genetic testing ..........in the case of golden and poodles, you'd want hips, elbows, eyes, and heart all certified clear in both sire and dam.

And I raise you parti coloured poodles if you want a fashion statement.

[Erica]

Are poodles not still routinely docked in the US?

A lot of poodles do still seem to be docked - that's one of the reasons I eliminated several of the possible breeders. Often breeders who mentioned docking their pups also removed the front dewclaws too, which is not good for the dog long-term. :/ However, I was able to find some breeders who did not chop bits of their puppies off!

It's funny you should mention parti poodles - one of the two breeders who have passed my scrutiny does breed some partis. They are gorgeous!

I'm waiting to hear back from the two final breeders about a couple questions. I'm hoping the answers will help definitively break the tie because I like both of them quite well so far!

And thank you for the notes, ckranz! One of the reasons I love this forum is the honesty people have. Elsewhere it would be "Oh, you could probably handle a Malinois - it might take a lot of effort, but you can do it!" but here it's "No, not at this time with this situation." And it is good to know that I can trust y'all's advice.