Prey drive question

[JudyN]

Jasper has a strong prey drive, being the type of dog he is, but I often wonder about what really constitutes high prey drive. For example:

Squirrels are 'just for fun'. He'll chase them, but it's not serious, it looks more like an excuse for a bit of a run.
Birds aren't interesting at all. Well, maybe ducks, if they didn't cheat by swimming away, and chickens would be viewed as a snack if he had half a chance.
A rabbit sitting next to a gorse bush will be considered and I can see his brain 'switch on', but probably ignored as he knows gorse hurts (wimp).
If a deer comes into view while he is on lead, I can still control him - just - or rather he can control himself, though he's thrumming in anticipation.
When we go for group lurcher walks, he rarely plays chase with the other dogs - after a quick burst of excitement he will be scouting the area, not getting too far from the pack, but looking for opportunities. When we walked him on lead through a deer-infested area, he was focused the whole time - OH could manage him, but again, he was thrumming with suppressed energy.

Comparing him with other lurchers, some seem more 'excited', lunging on the lead and so forth, and some have an 'if it moves, chase it' attitude which extends to anything small and vaguely fluffy. And they're more likely to be distracted by another dog and have a game of running round in circles

So the question is: does 'high prey drive' equate to 'chase anything, and if you're on lead, lunge and howl' (which I'm sure someone who works their dogs would train them out of)? Or does it fit better with what I see as Jasper's more focused behaviour? Or is Jasper's brain more 'worky' than 'high prey drive'?

[Nettle]

Real prey drive (as opposed to running about) is totally focused. Predators do a cost/benefit analysis with every prey creature (not item - prey drive doesn't equate to toys) that presents itself. The first question analyses the percentage likelihood of a catch ('squirrel - hmmm- rather near a tree' 'rabbit hmmm- rather near a warren') the second is the amount of effort required in regard to amount of meat potentially achievable.

Deer are easier to catch than rabbits or squirrels, and there is more meat. Also consider race memory - deerhound types have an inborn desire for deer, for instance, and I've yet to meet a bedlington lurcher that isn't fixated on foxes.


Experience skews reaction - once a dog knows, it is encouraged or discouraged on a particular quarry. Then there is no going back. This is why a potential sheep-worrier can be cured but a dog that has actually caught a sheep has to be managed because it will never be cured.

Dogs with genuine high prey drive (given that all dogs have a degree of prey drive) don't mess about and don't waste energy.

[JudyN]

Thank you, Nettle I often get the impression that when someone's dog takes after anything, any time, dragging the owner behind him if he's on lead, he's regarded as having a high prey drive - and that having a high prey drive means the dog is therefore difficult to manage. Whereas Jasper's focus and assessment of the situation makes him easier to manage. Such a shame I can't make use of all that raw (no pun intended) talent he has

[Fundog]

Okay, so this question might seem kind of stupid, but to me it is a valid deliniation: is there a difference between "prey drive" and "hunt drive?" Meaning every outing (to prey habitats) is an opportunity to seek, find, flush, -- and if the human at the other end of the leash just happens to not be paying attention-- chase, capture, and kill. This is definitely Dottie's modum operandi. Annie, on the other hand, only wishes to capture, transport home, and release alive in my house.

My walks are a never ending adventure of hurriedly zigging and zagging, nose alternately on the ground and in the air, periodically pausing to stuff a head and most of the front portion of a body, into a large desert brush, tail waving like a signal flag waving in a jumbo jet. It is as though Dottie is saying, "Hurry! We've got to find those delicious animals before they disappear!"

This was the behavior always in Dottie (English Setter), but on one of our hikes in July she stuffed her head into a sagebrush (we figured a rabbit had been there and left) and pulled out two newborn birds. Naturally, they didn't live long. (Yes, it was sad, but she was only doing what she was born to do, afterall.) Since then, the stuffing-of-the-head-into-every-brush behavior has only intensified.

[Nettle]

It's semantics, but the 'hunt' is different from the 'catch'. For hunting dogs such as gundogs, their be-all and end-all is finding quarry, but then flushing it for the gun (or bird of prey) to do the catching bit. Therefore a 'stop' has been bred into them - find, flush and stop. Of course, being dogs, there is still a degree of 'catch' in the DNA, and so if the 'stop' isn't rewarded, then they easily progrees to 'catch'. A lot of gundog training is dedicated to dogs never finding out about the 'catch'.

Many sighthounds are worked in a way that they don't 'find' at all e.g. desert salukis used traditionally. They are perfectly happy just to be launched like missiles when game comes into view. However if necessary, they can 'find' with equal commitment - but the joy of catch dogs is - catching.

[Fundog]

Ah, I believe that answers my question. My dogs hunt. (Much like the humans who are hunting deer and elk at this time of year) They will always hunt. That's what they were born to do. And every outing for them is an opportunity-- no, a mission to hunt.

[JudyN]

the joy of catch dogs is - catching.

The 'chase' can also be rewarding in itself, though maybe this is more so in dogs who have limited experience of the catch? Jasper comes back from his pursuits with a big grin on his face and seems very happy. Even if he is also completely spent, can barely stand, and has collected a few war wounds.

Jasper doesn't tend to 'switch on' unless the quarry is in view or there's a clear scent. But after a few visits to the New Forest where he spotted deer every time, he would 'switch on' before we were even parked as he recognised where we were. We stopped going for several years as he would have been off within seconds if off lead.

[Nettle]

Yes, the chase releases lots of lovely endorphins, and for many dogs is rewarding because of the possibility of a catch. A bit like human courting

For most true hunting dogs, however, there has to be a 'catch' or in Jasper's case, contact, to maintain the desire. Professional hunting hounds may become dispirited if they never catch, and either stop trying on certain quarry, or only try when their chances of success are very high. One of the reasons for the popularity of bull cross lurchers (which have many drawbacks as far as purists are concerend) is that "quit" is not in their vocabulary.

Pack hounds hunting by scent lose "drive" if they have a long spell without a catch. This has caused a lot of difficulty since hunting was banned in UK, because hunting a trail does not create the same attitude as hunting quarry. Effectively we are having to breed a softer less effective type of hound.