Veterinary Behaviourist

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Veterinary Behaviourist

Postby ladybug1802 » Sat May 14, 2011 3:34 pm

Anyone know anything about Jon Bowen? He is a veterinary behaviourist - accredited and all that. My vet recommended him and said she would recommend if I see anyone, to see a fully accredited veterinary behaviourist, rather than a solely behaviourist.

He is apparantly at the Queen Mother Hospital somewhere in London so its a bit of a trek....just wondering if its worth it or not. My insurance would pay for the consultation, and may give him a call next week for a chat. Just wonder if it might be worth trying it to see if he can offer any help for improving the way he is with strangers and, more importantly, at the vets. It was heartbreaking the other day having to get him so stressed even to get the sedative injected.....crying, trying to hide under chairs, flailing around. I just worry in case one day he has an accident/needs something serious done or, god forbid, he needs to be put down...as it all adds the the stress and time it takes to examine him.
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Re: Veterinary Behaviourist

Postby ladybug1802 » Sun May 15, 2011 3:16 am

Anybody have any views on veterinary behaviourists in general???
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Re: Veterinary Behaviourist

Postby Nettle » Sun May 15, 2011 4:17 am

I'm not entirely sure what the term means - that he is a vet who is also a behaviourist? I am a clinical behaviourist, which means I have completed recognised studies in how the brain works, inheritance of genes, the relationship between drugs and behaviour, hormones and developmental periods and a whole load of other things I can't be bothered to write :lol: but some of the best behaviourists I know have not studied those subjects in this depth, and having letters after the name does not necessarily mean anyone is a great behaviourist, or that they are not.

Jon Bowen has a good reputation, but I am sure you can source somebody closer to you who can help you just as well if you prefer. Don't underrate how stressed a dog can be after a long journey to a place like London. If of course Jon comes out to you, that would deal with the travel aspect.
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Re: Veterinary Behaviourist

Postby Mattie » Sun May 15, 2011 4:47 am

Is Dylan on anything to help with his nervousness? There are several things you can buy that may help him, Serene-um, Stay Calm, Skullcap & Valerian, Dene's Nerve Tablets are all good but not for every dog. The vet put Merlin on Skullcap & Valerian and it helped him, Joe was better with Serene-um or Dene's Nerve Tablets, I find Stay Calm works quicker than the others but the others end up working better if that makes sense.

I tried Tilly on Skullcap & Valerian, she did improve but not as much as I hoped after she was on them for 2 months, I have had her off it for a couple of weeks and will be starting her on Serene-um next week to see if that helps her.

Tommy used to have seizures, there was always a build-up before she had them, she became hyperactive, I would give her either Serene-um or Dene's Nerve Tablets and these stopped the seizures from developing, they settled her down again.

With this type of thing it is trial and error, but it is when we take our dogs to the vets, they will try different things out to see what will work just as our doctors do.

I think you would be better going to Nettle or Emmabeth Image
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Re: Veterinary Behaviourist

Postby easilyconfused » Sun May 15, 2011 5:49 am

Jon Bowen has an outstanding reputation, I would jump at the chance tbh
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Re: Veterinary Behaviourist

Postby ladybug1802 » Sun May 15, 2011 8:17 am

Nettle.....ooh I didnt realise you were a clinical behaviourist! But yes, as far as I know the vet was talking about someone who is a certified behaviourist and a vet...so that they might be able to consult and advise/prescribe medication if need be. Where are you based Nettle? Do you see people and their dog about their issues? I was actually thinking the same thing about the travel.....it would be a strange place, strange smells, strange person....whereas I would prefer him to be seen in the house. That is where Dylan shows how he is normally, and will enable him to be seen behaving in his usual way to visitors.

Mattie....no he is not on anything at the moment. I do wonder whether any medication of any kind would be help or would make no differece, but would be more than willing to try things! I will look those names up that you mentioned. Problem with Dylan is that the majority of the time he does not appear stressed/nervous in his normal day to day life, with people he knows or with dogs he meets. I think this is why when he behaved like he did last week with my friend the dog walker, she doesnt think it is due to fear, but I still think it is.

Easilyconfused....ah interesting....good to know he does have a good reputation as, after my last disaster getting somoene out, I need to be sure that IF I do have Dylan seen by someone else, it is someone good! May give him a call on Monday and see if he does do home visits or not.
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Re: Veterinary Behaviourist

Postby ladybug1802 » Sun May 15, 2011 8:22 am

Nettle....if you are not too far from Surrey, could you tell, me if you do home visits and all the info that goes with that please?? Thanks lots!
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Re: Veterinary Behaviourist

Postby Mattie » Sun May 15, 2011 11:26 am

Tilly is fine in the house unless a man comes in, then she reacts to him, she jumps round barking quite close but has never attempted to bite.

What I like about those is they are not drugs but mainly herbs.
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Re: Veterinary Behaviourist

Postby Nettle » Sun May 15, 2011 11:40 am

The law is interesting here (UK)

Under the Veterinary Surgeons' Act, only a vet. may prescribe drugs.

Only a vet. trained in their use may prescribe Bach Remedies or other Flower Remedies, herbs, homeopathy or other 'alternative'.

This means that even a highly-qualified therapist cannot legally recommend a specific alternative treatment unless they are also a vet.

Owners can research and treat their own dog (other animal) as long as it does not involve 'a veterinary procedure' (legal grey area - are any of these 'veterinary procedures?') or cause 'unnecessary suffering'.

This is criminal law and penalties are draconian.

So we can suggest you do some research in a specific area, which is what we have done :wink: but we have to be careful what else we mention.

Personally, I'd have a really good look at Bach Remedies, and also a chat with Dorwest Herbs, whose products are licenced for veterinary use and who can legally give advice - they are very friendly and knowledgeable.

For your other question - you have PM.
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Re: Veterinary Behaviourist

Postby Mattie » Sun May 15, 2011 12:03 pm

That is why I always put up http://feelbach.com/qti.asp?QTID3=PetEN instead of recommending them Nettle, the owner can then do the questionnair and see what remedies are recommended by them. :lol:

Those that I have used before are all for sale in pet shops or in the case of Skullcap & Valerian from Dorwest Herbs.
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Re: Veterinary Behaviourist

Postby ladybug1802 » Sun May 15, 2011 12:26 pm

Ah I see!! This evening and tomorrow will be a research project on Back Remedies and maybe a call to Dorwest Herbs. Thank you!!
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Re: Veterinary Behaviourist

Postby ladybug1802 » Sun May 15, 2011 12:59 pm

OK...I did the questionnaire and the recommendations are holly and mimulus. Have you any experience of these? And once I get them, should I give it it in his dinner....and do I just give a drop?

Sorry for the questions!

Ooh and I am looking on the Dorwest Herbs site at the Skullcap and Valerian page, and there is a testimonial from someone (who knows if it is true or not!) which says:-

“A few weeks ago I asked you about Freda and her problem of fear and aggression at the vet’s and you suggested Scullcap & Valerian tablets. I would like to tell you how successful it has been. I dosed her as instructed and I could not believe how calm she was this morning. From the moment we enter the waiting room she is normally agitated and barks non-stop, this morning she was calm, happy, tail wagging and even had a tug-o-war with me over her lead. She was happy in the surgery and let the vet fuss her, although she was a little agitated when the vet started to examine her. But, once that was over and she was on the floor again she was fine. I am so impressed by the success of this product, many, many thanks for your advice and I will happily recommend you.”

I am definitely going to try these!!!
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Re: Veterinary Behaviourist

Postby Mattie » Mon May 16, 2011 1:35 am

Skullcap and Valerian did help both Merlin and Tilly but as spectacular as that.

With things like that you need to be giving them for about 4 weeks before you see if just how much they are helping, Nettle will be better at explaining than me because she has a lot more knowledge.
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Re: Veterinary Behaviourist

Postby Nettle » Mon May 16, 2011 3:18 am

Each dog is an individual and responds differently. I have personal experience of all the remedies you mention, and I think you have made good choices. Use the Bach Remedies together, and expect four weeks before any tangible response, though some show a change immediately.

It is best to use these as part of a desensitising programme as they support the dog while you are re-training.

The Dorwest mix is good too, but very strong and probably a therapist would advise you to start with the Bach Remedies and use the Dorwest for specifics such as building up to a vet visit or firework night, but talk to Dorwest and see what they say. For emergency vet visits where you have had no time to forward-plan, I suspect a Bach therapist would suggest Rock Rose. The Remedies can be dripped on the nose or the tongue: better on the nose of a dog is likely to snap at the dropper. Or you can put a few drops in the drinking water.
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Re: Veterinary Behaviourist

Postby ladybug1802 » Mon May 16, 2011 10:27 am

ah OK...I will try the Bach remedies first. I went into a local pet store but they didnt have them, and nor did another local pet shop. Can i buy them online, or just buy the ones from a human health food store, or are the pet ones different?
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